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Thread: Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

  1. #1
    truevirax is offline Contributing Member (10-99 posts)
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    Default Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

    I thought I share with you some new "in vivo" research about oxidative stress in regard to AIDS and HAART I found online recently. The results seem to be consistent with the Montagnier-Interview from the "House of Numbers" DVD (and the PGs viewpoint of course). The question still remains, what exactly causes the oxidative stress in the first place. I don't want to comment further on these findings, as their relevance is rather selfevident:

    Enhanced Oxidative Stress Markers and Antioxidant Imbalance in HIV Infection and AIDS Patients (2009)
    http://www.banglajol.info/index.php/...view/2295/2127

    Serum levels of antioxidant vitamins and mineral elements of human immunodeficiency virus positive subjects in Sokoto, Nigeria (2010)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20935424

    Oxidative imbalance in HIV-1 infected patients treated with antiretroviral therapy (2010)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19884983

    Altered oxidative stress indexes related to disease progression marker in human immunodeficiency virus infected patients with antiretroviral therapy (2010)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20951539

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    Default Re: Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

    All kinds of drugs, legal and illegal do, and there were dietary changes that led to more oxidative stress by the 80s, as I've pointed out for years. Moreover, as I stated in another thread:

    There was a "gay bowel disease" epidemic (including deaths) in NYC in the 70s, but that is not and was never considered part of "HIV/AIDS." Then there was a KS epidemic, but KS is now said to be caused by a specific Herpes virus. And there were quite a few deaths caused by pneumonia, which doctors at that time said might very well be caused by the "medicines" they were prescribing their patients (which were highly immunosuppressive). Finally, there were some "oddball" "AIDS" deaths, such as heart attacks, suicides, ODs, etc. (none of which are said to be "AIDS"). Thus, where is the "AIDS?" When you actually look at the deaths, there is no need for any "germ" that had yet to be identified. The "HIV test" is a "red herring," and because no large scale, properly controlled study has ever been done, it's a waste of time to worry about it, because it may mean nothing whatsoever, and appears to be a weak marker at best (statistically). Note that in Australia it was called "slim disease," and at least one doctor there said it was basically identical to what came to be called "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" inm the USA, with the one difference being that slim disease was characterized by wasting and was more common in men, whereas CFS was more common in women and often caused weight gain (which suggests hormone differences between men and women, along with low stomach acid among the men).

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    Default Re: Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

    Hans: Please use hyperlinks to reference redundant points. It is not necessary to copy/paste repetitive comments in multiple threads.

    Thanks.

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    Default Re: Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

    Truevirax,
    What causes oxidatve stress in the first place?

    Lots of things cause oxidative stress and this would vary from person to person.

    If one lived most of their life with an unbalance PH Level, wouldn't you think oxidative stress would play into ones health? Some people are capable of withstanding immense stress and an unbalance body chemistry, while others struggle with it and often get sick, then there's those in the middle. There's no real explanation, unless one truly can analyze either on their own or with proper (natural) care, what the root causes could be, but like what Matt Irwin says in AIDS and the Voodoo Hex, "Studies of both animals and humans have shown that severe, chronic stress results in a syndrome remarkably similar to AIDS". Therefore, what's likely seen as Enhanced Oxidative Stress Markers (or HIV disease if one wants to believe in such crap) amounts to this:

    Lifestyle = unbalanced body chemistry = oxidation = health consequences.

    If one were to be indoctrinated into believing solely HIV baloney, it puts this oxidation concept on steroids and the results are remarkably enhanced to almost absurdity such as:

    Lifestyle = unbalanced body chemistry = oxidation = health consequences / HIV test / severe stress = enhanced oxidation = Chemical stress = extreme heath consequences, an endless cycle.

    There are no clear answers, except to exit as quickly as possible the "zone" and to reverse oxidative damage as one should be striving for anyways.
    Last edited by Brian Carter; October 29th, 2010 at 03:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

    I don't find the "oxidative stres" claim to be all that compelling, because it's too broad. In any case, I created a thread on my site that contains many early "AIDS" studies (before "HIV") for those who want to take a look at reasonable alternatives. Some are consistent with my idea that there is no one "AIDS" phenomenon, even in the early days:

    http://thescientificdebateforum.aimo...-1-883765.html

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    truevirax is offline Contributing Member (10-99 posts)
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    Default Re: Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

    Hans I agree with you, the oxidative stress explanation is very broad and somehow unspecific. There have to be some underlying factors, eg. higher utilization of miconutrients oder malabsorption that cause the characteristic lack of antioxidants. Maybe there is a connection between redox balance in the body and a healthy gastrointestinal tract. I found the intestinal dysbiosis paper (http://hivskeptic.files.wordpress.co...-dysbiosis.pdf) by Tony Lance very convincing and I still fiddle around with his ideas about certain lifestile factors that could probably cause both: immune definciency and the "hiv-specfic" immune activation (elevated antibody production) at the same time.

    Another factor comes into play: The gastrointestinal tract is devastated within the first days of HIV infection. There have been studies with fotographic evidence showing this phenomenon (http://www.prn.org/index.php/progres...athogenesis_57). This effect alone could be responsible for the complete breakdown of the immune system. It was not suprising at all when scientists pointed out in 2007 that "HIV infection could quite reasonably be considered a disease of the GI tract." (http://www.nature.com/mi/journal/v1/.../mi20071a.html).

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    CharmlessRobson is offline Contributing Member (10-99 posts)
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    Default Re: Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

    Interesting study, truevira.

    However, I suspect once again effect is being confused as cause, ie a positive antibody test follows the GI inflammatory problems.

    At one point in the paper, the authors highlight the importance of the inflammatory response. So surely they should be looking to reduce this hyper immune response rather than battling some wily lenti-virus. If the underlying biochemical factors are malignant, surely there is no need to invoke some exogenous virus as the cause of the devastation.

    And correct me if I am wrong, but if the GI tract is subject to such devastation at the onset of "infection" shouldn't people succumb to illness relatively quickly rather than after a 10 year latency?

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    Default Re: Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

    "The gastrointestinal tract is devastated within the first days of HIV infection."

    This sounds like pure, 100% propaganda to me. First of all, how could you know when someone's "first days" are? Then, how do you measure it? And if it were true, people would be dying all over the place. Moreover, what does "devastated" mean? The first thing I think of is chronic use of powerful antibiotics, not a "retrovirus." I had wasting due to lack of stomach acid, and I had to prepare all my meals or else I'd get food poisoning type attacks, which I had never had before in my life. Was my GI track "devastated?" All I needed was stomach acid supplements, and I also consumed things like yogurt, assuming it was a good idea. Things turned around quickly, but the "complications," such as severe osteoporosis, took longer to "cure" (which I did myself).

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    truevirax is offline Contributing Member (10-99 posts)
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    Default Re: Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

    Quote Originally Posted by HansSelyeWasCorrerct View Post
    "The gastrointestinal tract is devastated within the first days of HIV infection."

    This sounds like pure, 100% propaganda to me.
    What I wanted to point out is that this phenomenon could be observed within a very short time after the HIV test turned positive. Thats it. I would not expect such a profound change in the GI tract to happen within a few days or weeks. Instead the question arises how the GI tract looked like 1-2 years before the HIV test turned positive. What happens first?

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    cdm is offline Veteran Member (100+ posts)
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    Default Re: Oxidative Stress and AIDS/HAART: New Studies (free fulltext)

    Quote Originally Posted by truevirax View Post

    Enhanced Oxidative Stress Markers and Antioxidant Imbalance in HIV Infection and AIDS Patients (2009)
    http://www.banglajol.info/index.php/...view/2295/2127
    This work does not specify what were the AIDs patients and whether they had been treated

    Quote Originally Posted by truevirax View Post
    Serum levels of antioxidant vitamins and mineral elements of human immunodeficiency virus positive subjects in Sokoto, Nigeria (2010)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20935424
    This work reminds me of a cartoon magazine in my childhood explaining how to make a soup out of a stone. You simply put all the usual ingredients of the soup and in the end you add a stone and you boil it. AIDS of Africa is an effect of malnutrition and not of any virus, like the soup is an effect of its ingredients and not of any stone thrown in it . No respectful scientist ignores it anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by truevirax View Post
    Oxidative imbalance in HIV-1 infected patients treated with antiretroviral therapy (2010)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19884983

    Altered oxidative stress indexes related to disease progression marker in human immunodeficiency virus infected patients with antiretroviral therapy (2010)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20951539
    Yes these are extremely good works. I think they should be put as a reference in the Question and Answer pages. The drugs kill as an old member used to say, LightandDarkBalance actually. thanks truevirax
    Last edited by cdm; October 30th, 2010 at 11:30 PM.

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