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View Full Version : How much importance do you attribute to 'celebrating'?



Deksman2
January 1st, 2013, 03:20 PM
Several people I encountered (along with certain members of my family) seem to think that even though I don't celebrate anything, it would be 'polite' for example to say 'merry christmass' or 'happy new year' (or whatever else is 'appropriate' to the days they celebrate) to them.

I stopped celebrating everything possible (including birthdays) about a decade ago, and yet, certain individuals seem to think I am still obligated to extend these expressions to them.

To my knowledge... respecting other people's desire to engage in celebration at certain days (religious or otherwise) does NOT mean I have to participate in any way on the sake of 'politeness'.

Every time someone says one of the above expressions to me, I simply tell them:
'Thank you, but I don't celebrate anything' - or in case of certain few people who cannot move past their own notions or they get very angry/temperamental, I respond with 'all the best' (simply in an attempt to quell their emotions).

I also find it interesting how certain people seem to equate those who don't celebrate anything (or even their birthdays) with being 'sad'.
I don't find anything about not celebrating anything as 'sad', nor do I find it diminishes my own life or me as a Human being in any capacity.

It can get annoying when people get offended after I start explaining to them the difference between respecting people's practices and active participation (after saying I don't celebrate anything), because one doesn't include the other.

Deksman2
January 1st, 2013, 05:24 PM
Oh and... since I seem to be missing the 'edit' button, I would like to apologize for the title because it SHOULD have read: How much importance do you attribute to 'celebrating'

jonathan barnett
January 1st, 2013, 06:57 PM
Oh and... since I seem to be missing the 'edit' button, I would like to apologize for the title because it SHOULD have read: How much importance do you attribute to 'celebrating'

Title changed, per your request.

Users can edit their posts for up to 35 minutes after publishing them. After that, you need to contact a Mod, or do what you just did. This policy is to prevent anyone from rewriting history.

agv
January 9th, 2013, 12:38 PM
Every time someone says one of the above expressions to me, I simply tell them:
'Thank you, but I don't celebrate anything'

Isn't that blatantly seeking drama? :D
Actually saying "you too" would be shorter.

JeremyB37
January 9th, 2013, 02:44 PM
I think AGV has a good point. Unless you want to create drama and potential upset and argument, it is surely socially more nurturing to simply say 'thanks and you too'. I can understand making the point about religious festivals that a person does not celebrate but 'New Year'? Why would anyone not want to at least acknowledge hopes for peace and happiness in a New Year?

Deksman2
January 9th, 2013, 07:44 PM
I think AGV has a good point. Unless you want to create drama and potential upset and argument, it is surely socially more nurturing to simply say 'thanks and you too'. I can understand making the point about religious festivals that a person does not celebrate but 'New Year'? Why would anyone not want to at least acknowledge hopes for peace and happiness in a New Year?

Because I find it pointless?
If you want peace and happiness, go out and extend such notions to others (which is what I try to do) by actively encouraging them to think along those lines and exposing them to relevant general education.
Become the change you want to see in the world.

Its not my intention to create drama... but rather I find it annoying when people continuously keep saying/doing these things that mean nothing to me (after being informed that they mean nothing to me) - so I keep reminding them.

JeremyB37
January 9th, 2013, 09:45 PM
Oh dear. There comes a point when ones personal emotional view of such things than easily make us appear as if we have our head firmly wedged up our own arse. The reality of day to day life is that human beings thrive in more ways than one when they have things to be joyous about, no matter what viewpoints individuals have on any one of those things.
As an example, Olympics and Paralympics London 2012. I personally didn't support the bid, didn't want them in my back yard, didn't support the 'regeneration' of East London rationale for them. However, when they happened it would have been churlish of anyone (me included) to have denied the quite extra ordinary joy that the whole experience brought to huge numbers of people living in the area, let alone participants and those who came from far and wide to be spectators or visitors generally. And the 'games makers' (the army of many 1000s of VOLUNTEERS who gave up their time at enormous expense to many of them) were truly inspirational. I have lived here in this neighbourhood for THIRTY years, and I have no previous experience of seeing so many people genuinely HAPPY for such an extended period.
I'm not going to be a killjoy to damn or condemn that 'celebration' or 'joy' that those people felt, any more than I am going to be so anal that I would try to 're-educate' anyone about the error in going in large numbers to the banks of the River Thames to 'celebrate' New Year.

positivenegative
January 10th, 2013, 02:29 AM
Well, when someone asks how I am, I say, fine thanks, and usually don't return the question, because for whatever reason, if I hear "fine" twice I think "Fucked up, insecure, neurotic and eccentric! LOL! :D

On the other hand, social conventions are social conventions. Don't take yourself too seriously! ;)

Gos
January 10th, 2013, 04:52 AM
Well, when someone asks how I am, I say, fine thanks, and usually don't return the question, because for whatever reason, if I hear "fine" twice I think "Fucked up, insecure, neurotic and eccentric! LOL! :D

On the other hand, social conventions are social conventions. Don't take yourself too seriously! ;)

That's why, when someone asks how I'm doing, I say, "Fair to partly peachy with a 69% chance of being cool!" When they ask how I'm feeling, I say, "With my hands!" The answer is every bit as meaningless as the question, and in the immortal words of George Carlin, "People REMEMBER you when you talk like that!"

----

jonathan barnett
January 10th, 2013, 05:42 AM
When asked: "How are you?" My automatic, canned response is:

"Depends on who you ask."

:D

Deksman2
January 10th, 2013, 09:50 AM
Oh dear. There comes a point when ones personal emotional view of such things than easily make us appear as if we have our head firmly wedged up our own arse. The reality of day to day life is that human beings thrive in more ways than one when they have things to be joyous about, no matter what viewpoints individuals have on any one of those things.
As an example, Olympics and Paralympics London 2012. I personally didn't support the bid, didn't want them in my back yard, didn't support the 'regeneration' of East London rationale for them. However, when they happened it would have been churlish of anyone (me included) to have denied the quite extra ordinary joy that the whole experience brought to huge numbers of people living in the area, let alone participants and those who came from far and wide to be spectators or visitors generally. And the 'games makers' (the army of many 1000s of VOLUNTEERS who gave up their time at enormous expense to many of them) were truly inspirational. I have lived here in this neighbourhood for THIRTY years, and I have no previous experience of seeing so many people genuinely HAPPY for such an extended period.
I'm not going to be a killjoy to damn or condemn that 'celebration' or 'joy' that those people felt, any more than I am going to be so anal that I would try to 're-educate' anyone about the error in going in large numbers to the banks of the River Thames to 'celebrate' New Year.

I don't mind people engaging in celebrations if that's what makes them happy. I simply don't enjoy this presumptuous behavior that just because they are celebrating, I should be too, otherwise I'm 'rude'.
I mean, I'm tolerant and accepting, but those donnot extend to actual participation.
This is why when those who keep trying to include me in these celebrations, I keep reminding them that it means nothing to me.
Whats the purpose of lying anyway?
Society keeps trolling about 'honesty', 'integrity', etc... and when individuals actually extend those notions on a daily basis and its part of who they are, society tends to behave in a condescending or hypocritical manner.

positivenegative
January 10th, 2013, 05:19 PM
I simply don't enjoy this presumptuous behavior that just because they are celebrating, I should be too, otherwise I'm 'rude'.


What you call presumptuous is done with good intention, or in the very least, innocent social convention. Perhaps you are considered 'rude" because when someone says Merry Christmas to you the scowl on your face or in your being is what they are responding to. You're a bit of a scrooge! :p

Try saying Merry Christmas unknowingly to a Jew and experience the overwhelming warmth in return. :D (Where is the sarcasm font?)

jonathan barnett
January 10th, 2013, 06:23 PM
(Where is the sarcasm font?)

Oh look... it's in the collection of smilies, next to the message box. :rolleyes:

(Now, where's the darned emoticon for sticking out tongue?!)

Deksman2
January 10th, 2013, 06:27 PM
There is no scowl on my face.
I merely smile and say: 'sorry, but I don't celebrate'.

JeremyB37
January 10th, 2013, 10:05 PM
I don't mind people engaging in celebrations if that's what makes them happy. I simply don't enjoy this presumptuous behavior that just because they are celebrating, I should be too, otherwise I'm 'rude'.
I mean, I'm tolerant and accepting, but those donnot extend to actual participation.
This is why when those who keep trying to include me in these celebrations, I keep reminding them that it means nothing to me.
Whats the purpose of lying anyway?
Society keeps trolling about 'honesty', 'integrity', etc... and when individuals actually extend those notions on a daily basis and its part of who they are, society tends to behave in a condescending or hypocritical manner.

It's a pretty common human trait to want to include other people in the activities that bring joy. Shared joy is a pretty common (dare I say it 'innate') human attribute. And what you refer to as 'honesty' and 'integrity' is not quite as simple or black and white as you try to make out. But then probably only continuing life experience, in the absence of a bit of thought, teaches us that. You seem to want to fight against that and all manner of things for reasons I can't really fathom, except the reasons seem to have little merit.
Unless the people you know are a little slow, if you keep refusing to engage with them even after your lectures, then I'm astonished they persist.
Now a complaint that they persist in inviting you against your will is a valid one and I have deep sympathy with you, even if when you reach your Autumn years you might share the experience of millions and be very glad when anyone invites you to share anything.:D

Gos
January 10th, 2013, 10:12 PM
When asked: "How are you?" My automatic, canned response is:

"Depends on who you ask."

:D

ROFLMFAOPIMP! That's the best one yet!

----

Gos
January 10th, 2013, 10:30 PM
It's a pretty common human trait to want to include other people in the activities that bring joy. Shared joy is a pretty common (dare I say it 'innate') human attribute. And what you refer to as 'honesty' and 'integrity' is not quite as simple or black and white as you try to make out. But then probably only continuing life experience, in the absence of a bit of thought, teaches us that. You seem to want to fight against that and all manner of things for reasons I can't really fathom, except the reasons seem to have little merit.
Unless the people you know are a little slow, if you keep refusing to engage with them even after your lectures, then I'm astonished they persist.
Now a complaint that they persist in inviting you against your will is a valid one and I have deep sympathy with you, even if when you reach your Autumn years you might share the experience of millions and be very glad when anyone invites you to share anything.:D

All good points, Jeremy.

But let's take the recent Christmas holiday for example. If Christmas brings so much joy to so many, why does everyone act like a complete asshole throughout the month of December? Why do children act like spoiled brats, and why do their parents behave even worse? Why are Black Friday riots becoming more and more commonplace? Why, for that matter, do they call it "Black Friday"? Why did that one woman start stabbing people in a Wal Mart a couple of years ago? Why is it that after logging more than a million miles behind the wheel of a motor vehicle, I have only had two occasions to have someone else try to deliberately hit me with their car, and by some strange coincidence, both events happened in December, and both occurred within the immediate vicinity of a shopping center?

If this is what you mean by "including other people in activities that bring joy," then feel free to leave me out of it next year and for every year to come, even when I'm an old man. I WILL NOT be offended in the slightest!

----

http://forums.questioningaids.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211&stc=1&d=1357853335

Deksman2
January 10th, 2013, 11:27 PM
It's a pretty common human trait to want to include other people in the activities that bring joy. Shared joy is a pretty common (dare I say it 'innate') human attribute. And what you refer to as 'honesty' and 'integrity' is not quite as simple or black and white as you try to make out. But then probably only continuing life experience, in the absence of a bit of thought, teaches us that. You seem to want to fight against that and all manner of things for reasons I can't really fathom, except the reasons seem to have little merit.
Unless the people you know are a little slow, if you keep refusing to engage with them even after your lectures, then I'm astonished they persist.
Now a complaint that they persist in inviting you against your will is a valid one and I have deep sympathy with you, even if when you reach your Autumn years you might share the experience of millions and be very glad when anyone invites you to share anything.:D

There are various other activities that people can do to include others to bring 'joy'.
Engaging in celebration is just something I don't see as necessary to bring another human being 'joy'.
I also don't try to portray 'honesty' and 'integrity' in a singular format... but at the same time, I have reasonable amount of experience to recognize duplicity/hypocrisy when I see it (though I don't jump to conclusions... instead, I try to inform myself whether they did behave like that in the first place or not - observations are one thing that can lead to hypothesizing which in turn produces possible explanations, while engaging in conversations where people disclose their actions that correlate with that kind of behavior [or another] is something else).

Also... there's really nothing 'innate' in Humans making us one way or the other (this extends to all forms of behavior).
Its the environment.
We may be born with certain tendencies, but whether those tendencies surface is up to the environmental factors we grow up under (parenting, education, exposure to information, culture, and lots of other factors, many of which start as early on in the womb).

I just feel 0 need to participate in celebrations in 'holidays' or 'celebrating' when I do my share of socializing with people on a regular basis in a capacity that is 10x more productive than the so-called 'festivities' (which in a sense can basically bring out a fake facade in people forcing them to 'conform' to a specific pattern of behavior at a time frame society 'picked' - instead of just people bringing joy, sharing, peaceful exchange of ideas, cooperation, etc. in their own time when they feel like it).

positivenegative
January 10th, 2013, 11:55 PM
Deksman2, what do you do for fun? Or, do have an issue with the word fun?

Deksman2
January 11th, 2013, 09:26 AM
Deksman2, what do you do for fun? Or, do have an issue with the word fun?

I have no issue with the word fun...
My idea of fun is to continuously inform myself of new scientific discoveries, participate is certain debates, questioning things, exposing others to the idea of relevant general education and critical thinking, along with doing 3d artwork, occasional writing, practicing my singing, sex, and some socializing with specific individuals or very small groups.

There are other things of course, but I'm in a bit of a rush right now seeing how I might be starting a new job.

JeremyB37
January 11th, 2013, 01:01 PM
All good points, Jeremy.

But let's take the recent Christmas holiday for example. If Christmas brings so much joy to so many, why does everyone act like a complete asshole throughout the month of December? Why do children act like spoiled brats, and why do their parents behave even worse? Why are Black Friday riots becoming more and more commonplace? Why, for that matter, do they call it "Black Friday"? Why did that one woman start stabbing people in a Wal Mart a couple of years ago? Why is it that after logging more than a million miles behind the wheel of a motor vehicle, I have only had two occasions to have someone else try to deliberately hit me with their car, and by some strange coincidence, both events happened in December, and both occurred within the immediate vicinity of a shopping center?

If this is what you mean by "including other people in activities that bring joy," then feel free to leave me out of it next year and for every year to come, even when I'm an old man. I WILL NOT be offended in the slightest!

----

http://forums.questioningaids.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=211&stc=1&d=1357853335

I couldn't agree more. I loved Christmas as a child but then that was more to do with singing Christmas carols (even though I was an atheist very young without fully understanding it), and the fact we got the choice to eat several pieces of fruit every day for two weeks, as opposed to the 2 pieces a week for the rest of the year (rather large family on a not very substantial income)!
I have resisted most offers from my family members to spend Christmas with them for a very long time and they accept it.
I have had very enjoyable times in Spain and Italy with partners, where it is a slightly more 'adult' orientated celebration because kids have a separate bash at Epiphany in early January.
But this is also a bit of a side issue to the main point Deksman is making about 'celebrating' per se, which I find anti-social and pretty anti-human. We all need the crucial social skills of adapting to different people and different wishes. Id suggest a crash course in that for anyone who so against 'celebration' before it lands them in a pit of loneliness.;)

JeremyB37
January 11th, 2013, 01:07 PM
I have no issue with the word fun...
My idea of fun is to continuously inform myself of new scientific discoveries, participate is certain debates, questioning things, exposing others to the idea of relevant general education and critical thinking, along with doing 3d artwork, occasional writing, practicing my singing, sex, and some socializing with specific individuals or very small groups.

There are other things of course, but I'm in a bit of a rush right now seeing how I might be starting a new job.

Good luck with the new job! Have fun.:)

Deksman2
January 11th, 2013, 05:30 PM
But this is also a bit of a side issue to the main point Deksman is making about 'celebrating' per se, which I find anti-social and pretty anti-human. We all need the crucial social skills of adapting to different people and different wishes. Id suggest a crash course in that for anyone who so against 'celebration' before it lands them in a pit of loneliness.;)

Why?
I don't think celebration is the only way to socialize or be with other Humans (nor is it the 'epitome' of what is means to be Human).
Its just a cultural notion that was taught to and embraced by many (but not all). Nothing more.
For that matter, can you really make a generalized statement that 'loneliness' (unless you socialize with others) is guaranteed?

There are numerous Humans who are not social creatures, and their mentality simply doesn't mesh well with others who might think oppositely.
That said, not all Humans who are not socializing are 'lonely' or 'sad' (that much is down to society that actively PORTRAYS that kind of stereotype).

For that matter, lack of desire to socialize doesn't have to mean a person will be 'anti-human' or 'rude' to others by default.
A person can lack desire to engage in social activities and still ask nicely of others to not bother them (you can actually have a very civilized short talk with them).

Its when others are 'insisting' (and therefore keep thinking that it can't possibly be that they want to be left alone) that problems arise because they slowly thread into the area of being very annoying.

Just because a person doesn't follow the majority in ways of thinking, doesn't mean such an individual is 'wrong' or that they will be 'lacking' in anything that others might see as 'important'.

positivenegative
January 11th, 2013, 05:46 PM
Its when others are 'insisting' (and therefore keep thinking that it can't possibly be that they want to be left alone) that problems arise because they slowly thread into the area of being very annoying.



How many marauding celebratory zombies are insisting you must celebrate with them continually annoying you Deksman2?


v0tMw5h1UK8

Deksman2
January 11th, 2013, 07:45 PM
How many marauding celebratory zombies are insisting you must celebrate with them continually annoying you Deksman2?


Marauding zombies?
None (and, seriously?).
Humans?
Some - which happen to be the most stubborn ones at that who keep insisting even after you keep telling them 'no thank you'.

Its mainly during those celebratory days of the year when they think 'everyone' is doing it, so at least, they aren't doing it all the time - but they can get annoying when they do.
:-)

cdm
January 12th, 2013, 09:44 PM
Your personality suits to the character of a certain homeopathic remedy Deksman2.
Does this remedy (http://www.homeoint.org/seror/cowperthwaite/aeth.htm) remind you of any of your complaints? No need to respond here.

Deksman2
January 12th, 2013, 10:53 PM
Your personality suits to the character of a certain homeopathic remedy Deksman2.
Does this remedy (http://www.homeoint.org/seror/cowperthwaite/aeth.htm) remind you of any of your complaints? No need to respond here.

Actually, the plant does not remind me of my 'complaints'.

Try to understand that 9 years ago (after loosing 46kg in 4 months), I meditated for 6 months (several hours per day).
That period of my life (starting with the 4 months when I was dieting) was relatively life-changing, where I began to discard over 90% of society's 'norms, perceptions, indoctrination', etc.
I reflected on the accumulated knowledge I had at that point, and began contemplating on those and many other concepts, different ways of thinking, etc.

Numerous cultural notions such as 'holidays' (or should I say, the desire to engage in 'celebrating') became meaningless.
I also failed to see the point in celebrating birthdays as well.

Instead, I look at it all for what it is... made up cultural concepts, that in the end, have no real impact on my life.
I wasn't the one who took great joy or pleasure in such things before... it was just I was able to discover how 'pointless' and utterly irrelevant they were to my happiness, well-being, or being Human.

It may seem a bit strange to certain people, especially those who spent most of their lives engaging in such activities, never questioning them, or thinking in different ways.

Its all learned behavior that stems from culture and the amount of knowledge/information/experience a person has.

I merely came to realize that I don't need to engage in such things to be happy, spread joy, cooperate, etc... and it doesn't diminish me in any way.

Inability of understanding on other people's part doesn't imply that I (or they) might be 'lacking' in anything that makes us 'Human', nor that my behavior is 'toxic' to others.
Actually, over the last 9 years, I increasingly came into contact with people who shared similar notions... or at the very least, they understood the underlying perception behind me not celebrating, and they had no problem accepting it (even if they weren't necessarily sharing it).

I was merely making an observation regarding family members and some other people who didn't understand.
This is basically what I would call a breakdown in communications - precipitated by possible lack of exposure to other ways of thinking (or information), resulting in the uninformed party to engage in projections that stem from existing knowledge/information at their disposal (in a highly emotional capacity).