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whereistheproof
September 9th, 2009, 05:58 PM
Guys am getting really tired of it.
all these hate blogs out there, all these *)(@#^& name calling us dumb, stupid, flat earthers, holocaust deniers and more. it's one of these day where its really difficult to bear.

especially if you keep asking the same old questions and you still don't get an answer. except insults, attacks and hate, hate, hate. i am so tired of this. and i am fighting this anonymously on blogs. i can't even begin to imagine what it must have been like for christine. or peter duesberg. being in the cross fire like this. terrible. :(

G Man
September 9th, 2009, 06:15 PM
Just remember, you are fighting a $50 Billion dollar industry. This is big business, and they want to squash us. Just keep doing the right thing and know that you have plenty of support.

You might want to take a break from the blogging, just for your own sanity. Then when you're ready, get back in the fight! Good luck.

resistanceisfruitful
September 9th, 2009, 06:59 PM
I agree. Letting them wear you down is letting them "win". I will walk away from the fight before I'll let that happen. I'm glad you have a place to vent here.




You might want to take a break from the blogging, just for your own sanity. Then when you're ready, get back in the fight! Good luck.

whereistheproof
September 9th, 2009, 07:23 PM
sometimes the obvious is hard to spot. thanks - appreciated. taking a break from this is perhaps just what the 'doctor prescribed!' :)

HansSelyeWasCorrect
September 9th, 2009, 07:27 PM
If I were to get involved in such "debates," I would (and have) ask if they understand the scientific method, and if so, could they explain it to me. If they say no, discussion is ended and I say, "well, since this is not a scientific discussion, I will leave you to your theological speculations about 'HIV/AIDS.'" If they do seem to understand the scientific method (and I have yet to find one who does or who is even willing to share their understanding of it), then I think the way to proceed would be to say something like, "great, now take me through the process of how 'HIV' was discovered and found to be the only possible cause of the 30 or so different issues considered 'AIDS,' down to the molecular level. I will devote as much time as it takes to make sure every last detail is consistent with evidence obtained by the scientific method."

cdm
September 9th, 2009, 08:43 PM
The right time and post to tell where I had been in the summer. I went to the places of the cathars in South-West France to honour them for their struggle. The Cathars were "heretics" who had been exterminated by the Popes. In their last refugee, the Mont-Segur castle, remained only 30 warriors with 200 women, children etc. who fought for almost a year, 5000 troops of the Pope. Finally the castle was seized and they burned them all. The history was written by the papal writers who wrote terrible lies about this community, which considered men and women equal, believed in sexual freedom for the lay men, had a realistic theology and a lot of other radical ideas and behaviors. (These were who believed that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were couple). But after 800 years, the truth about them began to be revealed. A lot of people go now to see the "pays cathar" as the locals call it.
Fight till the end, friends. Win or lose is the same. Giving up is not the same as continuing the struggle. Never give up till they burn you, this is wonderful and glorious.

T.rex
September 10th, 2009, 12:25 AM
The only time you should ever feel upset from these people is that day that they prove their case with veritable facts, (which will never happen).

The fact that they are attacking us with namecalling rather than simply laying out their case with irrefutable stats, proves everything. Namecalling is the only ammo they got.

Don't let them affect the way you think about yourself, or the truth you know.

HansSelyeWasCorrect
September 10th, 2009, 04:45 AM
To follow up on what T. rex said, why not just say, "if you have the evidence, why do you resort to vicious name calling? Do you think that someone who wants to discuss scientific evidence in a civil way should be treated like a pariah?"

whereistheproof
September 10th, 2009, 11:05 AM
thanks guys - i'll take all of this to heart.
good to have you around.
looks like we're spread all over the globe - would be good to do this once in a while in areal bar with some real beer ;)

cbwheel
September 13th, 2009, 07:52 AM
Reply to original post. They are full of hate. Your right, they definitely played a part in Christines demise. However, there are hateful people everywhere, even on our side. Ever read Clark Bakers blog? Look at what he has to say about our President, it goes way beyond politics. They have called him a terrorist, a socialist, a non-citizen (birthers) you name it. Our society has turned to visciousness. Civil discourse went out the window a long time ago.
You just have to stick to what you believe in and press on.

whereistheproof
September 13th, 2009, 08:58 AM
You are right. At the best of times I am having a hard time with american culture. was watching '102 minutes that changed america' the other day. a well made documentary about 9/11. featured one scene where outraged citizens on times square were calling to go to war now, to kill the terrorists all right now, and so. one person wanted to discuss, was shouted down by the others.

i understand these feelings. but does any these days stop and to think whats going on? no matter what happens to us as people, if we lose ourselves in these kind of emotions without thinking then we merely foster this sort of viciousness. this -only i am important- attitude with a sense of immediate entitlement to everything does nothing to solve the problems we face on this earth.

to face the challenges we face as beings we need solidarity, and a sense of sharing. the world will not survive otherwise. and the lies have got to stop. that doesn't make your president a communist. but what if he was a socialist? whats the big problem with that in the US? Europe is governed that way. All of the EU countries have a social security system that meets basic standards across the EU. I see nothing wrong with that.

If you have money in the US you can have a great life. If you do not - you cant even get proper health care. So whats wrong with changing that to a fairer model? That will also mean that those citizens that have more will have to share some of what they have. Its called solidarity. and i think there are quite a few in the US who are not happy about sharing anything. they want it all to themselves.

What missing in america is an understanding of real solidarity. EU health care - though not perfect - only works because by law everybody has to pay into the health care kitty. that keeps costs down. and patients are treated according to need - not by what the insurance company wants you to do.

but they are breaking that down too. hiv, bird, swineflu all great examples of how big pharma has infiltrated the system to profit from our tax money in a big way. but people are fighting back - look at the 'massenstrafanzeige' of the swiss anti corruption league and stefan lanka. citizens in europe have more rights - a legacy of WWII - but there are forces trying to erode that. big pharma is one of them.

we can still win this.

cdm
September 13th, 2009, 12:35 PM
cb..
have you ever seen this?

9-11 Research: Insider Trading (http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/stockputs.html#insurers)

There were people knowing about all these and purchased or bought shares, accordingly, of implicated companies in the 9/11 tragedy. Is it so difficult to find who were those who knew? Perhaps it is more difficult to find out how they knew, but it is easy to find who knew.
But the law services did nothing.

Have you ever seen anyone of the big pharma cartel, having his office inside the twin towers to go for a philanthropic gala the right day of the tragedy? In a place near where Bush had been? It takes a few minutes of investigation on the internet to find out.

whereistheproof
September 13th, 2009, 12:49 PM
i woudlnt be surprised about that.
its an old trick. if i wanted to go to war quick with a real justification, all i need is a disaster such as this to provoke the reaction: lets go to war now!
but thats a different discussion. and we probably wont ever be able to prove it.

kstokely2
September 14th, 2009, 12:43 PM
Dear "Where",

These blogs are completely wicked and evil. I'm sure they added to Christine's passing.
I don't ever get anywhere near them. (I realize they have a field day with me as well)
That's okay. They can't take away the fact that I feel good today, and will continue to be vocal!
And the HATE that!

I really appreciate you, and others like you, that are "fighting" these very pathetic bloggers. But, don't let it affect your good health and frame of mind.
You are WAY more important in this life to waste too much of your valuable time on them.
Plus, I for one, want you and the other people on this site, around for a long time :)
Everyone here, you are my heros!

whereistheproof
September 17th, 2009, 07:22 PM
still - its tough and lonely. i am having a hard time with this. 22 years of my life. stolen by those bastards. i just wish that only for one day they wake up in the morning feeling the way i feel about their flawed test, poisonous medicine and loneliness they put me through.

G Man
September 17th, 2009, 07:28 PM
Try attempting to save someone's life that you know, and basically being called a conspiracy theorist. While he sits at home dying. Now that's frustrating. :mad:

whereistheproof
September 17th, 2009, 07:34 PM
its catch 22 isnt it. will this ever end? i hope so. every day i try and do something about it. sometimes i feel better about it. then there is news about a nother world aids day. and just when i get over that, and feel better, some stupid headlines about hiv. or millions of people allegedly dying without arv's. or some one calling me names on a blog. or some one at work talking about hiv being the cause of aids. and when you engage them - they think you are some lunatic.

right now i really hope that the RA 2009 conference is going to be a big hit. making headlines. please - i want this to end so badly!

Aion
September 19th, 2009, 09:33 PM
If you think the whole HIV=AIDS paradigm is going to somehow magically come crashing-down any time soon, you are kidding yourself. It is a nice dream though.

I don't say this to discourage anyone, to the contrary, I say it so that your expectations will be realistic and so you won't get discouraged when things don't pan-out as far as some sort of sweeping change is concerned.

Serious Dissidents are in it for the long-haul; because so many careers and so much money is behind the big mistake, our rabid opponents will never, ever concede any of our many points of concession.

Remember, they have defined us as "Denialists".

My best advice to offer anyone is be realistic. Live your life. Educate yourself; this means going back and reading the *early* (i.e. John Lauritsen) Dissident literature and being thoroughly familiar with the actual history of what has happened, and how it came about. This is an important basis for all dissident arguments, often neglected by some dissidents.

You can have a huge positive effect, it just is not always immediately obvious.

cdm
September 21st, 2009, 01:25 PM
If you think the whole HIV=AIDS paradigm is going to somehow magically come crashing-down any time soon, you are kidding yourself. It is a nice dream though.

I don't say this to discourage anyone, to the contrary, I say it so that your expectations will be realistic and so you won't get discouraged when things don't pan-out as far as some sort of sweeping change is concerned.

Serious Dissidents are in it for the long-haul; because so many careers and so much money is behind the big mistake, our rabid opponents will never, ever concede any of our many points of concession.

Remember, they have defined us as "Denialists".

My best advice to offer anyone is be realistic. Live your life. Educate yourself; this means going back and reading the *early* (i.e. John Lauritsen) Dissident literature and being thoroughly familiar with the actual history of what has happened, and how it came about. This is an important basis for all dissident arguments, often neglected by some dissidents.



You are right about getting back to history of dissidence and I think we must consider the even more earlier attack of the cartel against humanity, uniting this way all the forces of conscience and truth. It is not only the AIDS establishment. The AIDS establishment, the vaccine establishment, the big pharma establishment, all of them plus other things, comprise what we call cartel. One is the enemy, not the "careers". These are cowards.

Another thing is that as an individual we must be realistic and know our limitations. But as a member of a group the forces are different. So as the group expands, or even better as everyone finds his own "action plan", the probability of confronting the enemy effectively is more.

So aion get into a group and fight. You are surely needed and your role must be unrolled by you.

The war is not avoidable, when the 2 opponents hold their positions without retreating. They will eliminate you as an individual. But they can not eliminate groups of people, so easily. They know it and they are afraid of it. I assure you of this.

Aion
September 21st, 2009, 07:39 PM
"The war is not avoidable, when the 2 opponents hold their positions without retreating. They will eliminate you as an individual. But they can not eliminate groups of people, so easily. They know it and they are afraid of it. I assure you of this."

Actually, there are vulnerabilities in any group that can exceed the ones an individual can manage. I know this because I have in fact been involved to a greater extent than you seem to assume.

Being part of a group does not make you any safer necessarily. This is really the difference between idealism and real understanding.

cdm
September 21st, 2009, 11:00 PM
"
Being part of a group does not make you any safer necessarily. This is really the difference between idealism and real understanding.

I was not referring to the personal safety. THIS IS SOMETHING ANYONE HAS TO ACCOMPLISH BY HIS OWN MEANS.

GROUPS ARE MORE POWERFUL.
THEY NEED TO BE ORGANIZED AWAY FROM THE INTERNET. THIS IS MUCH SAFER FOR THE INDIVIDUAL

Brian Carter
September 22nd, 2009, 05:48 AM
"Tired" is a good post!

But let me share something with you all that I've told others, such as Kari and Celia, which I've borrowed from Anthony Robbins research over a decade ago.

YOUR OPINION OF ME IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS

Please keep this in mind, if and when you're under duress from what others have to say about you or what you do.

StarZ
September 23rd, 2009, 05:17 AM
Here! here!
You cant care about their opinion of you personally, how can it surprise you if they disparage you individually in view of the contempt they have for the group. The most important thing is to be active, in the capacity you are prepared to endure and to the personal risk you are willing to sacrifice. Noone can blame anyone for retreating individually in a dirty war such as this.