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resistanceisfruitful
March 12th, 2009, 01:04 PM
Glutathione deficiency is a well documented (http://www.google.com/search?q=glutathione+deficiency+immune&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) condition in those with immune deficiency, cancer, MS and other chronic conditions. There's quite a bit of discussion about this in the AME archives as well.

The information I've found about supplementing, however, is confusing.

I have been using glutamine powder (a precursor to glutathione) supplementation intermittently for several years on the advice of an allopathic HIV specialist. Other references recommend another precursor, n-acetyl cycteine (NAC) for supplementation, which I've also been using the last two years. Acetyl l-carnitine (ALCAR) is yet another glutathione "booster" that is in my oversized list of supplements.

Needless to say, I'd like to reduce the quantities of supplements I'm taking.

Apparently taking glutathione itself orally is not very effective, due to low absorption rates in the digestive tract. There are some sublingual glutathione (http://www.iherb.com/Search.aspx?kw=glutathione%20sublingual) products available, but I'm not sure how they compare for dosing.

Does anyone have any additional information about the best supplement to counter glutathione deficiency? Are there other reasons to take NAC and carnitine besides glutathione deficiency?

LivingWell
March 13th, 2009, 10:04 PM
Dear Resistance is Fruitful;
I saw your question about glutathione and I am happy to answer your questions. There are many ways to raise and sustain intracellular glutathione. The best clinically proven way to do so is by supplying bonded cysteine to the cells. This will combine with glycine and glutamic acid, which is plentiful in our diet, to make glutathione in the cell.
This in turn has a marked effect on several disease states, including the suppression of HIV. Would you like to know more?

LivingWell

resistanceisfruitful
March 13th, 2009, 10:47 PM
Would you like to know more?


Gee, LW. I sure would, but last time I heard an invitation like yours I ended up at an Amway meeting, so you're credibility gets one ding right there.

I see from your profile that your a "wellness consultant". Ding ding.

I'm sure you're not using AME to solicit business now, are you?

Ding ding ding.

LivingWell
March 14th, 2009, 01:46 AM
Dear Resistance;
I appreciate your concerns. Actually my purpose in writing is to provide useful information to those that are asking. Did you find my answer helpful and informative?

No dings here!

LW

resistanceisfruitful
March 14th, 2009, 03:42 AM
Sorry if I jumped to conclusions, but I thought my question was pretty clear: Which supplement is the best way to boost glutathione levels. You said:"The best clinically proven way to do so is by supplying bonded cysteine to the cells."

Your answer begs the next question, how does one best supply bonded cysteine to the cells? Oral NAC? IV glutathione? Rebounding upside down after lunch?

Your incomplete answer, followed by asking me if I wanted to know more struck me as odd, to say the least, and not really helpful, but I'd love to hear more if you can help. It might even benefit others here.

LivingWell
March 14th, 2009, 04:53 PM
Dear Resistance,
Good morning! I am happy to answer your further questions. N-acetyl Cysteine is a variant of the amino acid L-cysteine, with an "acetyl" molecule attached. It does an excellent job of raising glutathione, especially in emergency situations in case of a drug overdose to save a person's liver and their life. But in smaller every day doses, many report that it tastes and smells bad, and since it is an over the counter drug, can have toxic side effects. It also has a short half life, so has to be taken several times a day. What has your experience been with NAC?

You are correct that oral glutathione is not absorbed well. Intravenous glutathione is another excellent way to get GSH into the system, but this too has a short half life, and ends up in the blood serum but not the lymphocytes where you really need it to boost your immune system and boost T cell production. It is also expensive and invasive.
You seem to be well read on GSH , and so I would like to ask if you have read the excellent handbook on GSH that Dr. Jimmy Gutman wrote. I have no commercial interest in the book, but this book will answer all your questions about the various ways to raise glutathione. It is entitled "Glutathione- Your Key to Health" .
Bonded cysteine which I mentioned earlier is two cysteine molecules bonded together with a sulfur molecule. It is bioactive and thermolabile. This enables the cysteine to survive the digestive process and enter the cell intact where it can become the precursor for GSH. Bonded cysteine is in mother's breast milk, so after we are weaned this is no longer available to us. It is also found in raw meat, raw milk, and raw eggs, and in small amounts in raw vegetables. Since these foods are not plentiful in our diet nowadays, it is difficult to obtain enough. If you would like to learn more about this, you can find the answers you seek within the pages of Dr. Jimmy Gutman's book. You should be able to find it online at a bookstore.

If I can be of further assistance to you, please do not hesitate to ask. I am happy to help. I know you will find the book a great read. This is where I learned much of what I shared with you above.

Sincerely,
LivingWell

resistanceisfruitful
March 14th, 2009, 06:42 PM
N-acetyl Cysteine is a variant of the amino acid L-cysteine, with an "acetyl" molecule attached. It does an excellent job of raising glutathione, especially in emergency situations in case of a drug overdose to save a person's liver and their life. But in smaller every day doses, many report that it tastes and smells bad, and since it is an over the counter drug, can have toxic side effects. It also has a short half life, so has to be taken several times a day. What has your experience been with NAC?

I have been taking 1000 mg NAC 3x day for the last year or so. I could make that 4x day, but taking anything more frequently than that is a bit hit on the doability scale.

I also take 1 tblspoon (forget what the metric equivalence is) of l-glutamine powder 2x day. That has been a recommendation of my allopathic doc for some time, though I haven't always been as compliant as I have been the last year or so. He recommends it as a means to improve body composition values.

I will followup your lead for the book and see what I can learn there. I see bonded csyteine is available as a nutritional supplement. Adding it to my current regimen seems reduntant. What I'm really trying to determine is if I can supplement with a single form, rather than two or three different ones. Should I consider switching the NAC for a bonded cysteine product. Keep or drop the l-glutamine?

Glutathione and selenium deficiencies seem to be almost universally accepted as contributors to immune disorders. Supplementation is supported by those in the natural wellness fields, as well as the mainstream.

For those people trying to address health problems with their immune systems without pharmaceutical intervention, they should probably be at the top of any list for supplementation.

Again LW, I regret my premature cross words earlier in this thread and thank you for the information.

resistanceisfruitful
March 14th, 2009, 08:26 PM
LivingWell:

Do you have any relationship with Immunocal or Immunotec?

LivingWell
March 14th, 2009, 09:00 PM
Dear Resistance;

I understand your concerns and your question about what you should do. I believe that Dr. Gutman's book will clear it up for you. I just did a quick search online, and see that this latest edition of his book is unavailable. I bought my copy directly from his office a few months ago and thought it was available elsewhere by now. But he has written four editions of this book, and one of the older ones which is available for less than $10 will still have the information you need to make this decision. This latest edition just has some newer medical studies included in it, but the third edition is still an excellent resource. The third edition which is entitled "GSH Your body's most powerful protector" is available at amazon.com for $7.50 and up used and new.

As with any health care decision, you should make an informed choice. This book will give you all the choices available to you, and then perhaps you can discuss these options with your physician.

If you would like to know my personal opinion, and that is all it is, about what you should do regarding your specific questions, here are my observations. You mention you have to take NAC several times a day. I know how difficult that can be, and I hear what you are saying about going from 3-4 times a day- hard to maintain a routine of that day in and day out. Ideally you would like to take one supplement once a day and forget it. I understand that L-glutamine or glutamic acid, which is one of the three precursors for glutathione, is plentiful in the diet, so am not sure if you need to be taking an L-Glutamine supplement. If you were to decide to skip all of the glutathione precursors and choose one, then I would choose bonded cysteine. It can be taken once a day and stays in your system longer. It looks like from your own research you see that it is available. There is one supplement that is listed in the Physician's Desk Reference and is covered for certain conditions in certain states by Medicare and Medicaid. There is a possibility that it would be covered for you if you decide to take it. If you want to know more specifically about this, please send me an e-mail at my address: Laura@ImmuneHealthSolutions.com. We can talk more there, and again, I promise I am here to provide helpful information, and likely someone else will benefit from this besides myself, but I will be happy knowing that I have pointed you in the right direction.

I just saw your last question- and yes I am a consultant with Immunotec. The company is a biotechnical research firm out of Montreal , Quebec, and they have given me an excellent education on the topic of glutathione up- regulation. Please keep in mind that if you are able to get Immunocal through Medicare or Medicaid I would not benefit at all. You would be able to order it directly through Immunotec's medical division. Your doctor should be able to prescribe it for you since it is listed in the PDR. If you would like access to the medical studies available and specific patents on the subject of boosting immunity, I can also direct you to those as well.

Again the book which covers all methods of raising GSH will give you the most rounded out picture. If you desire more info on Immunocal, I can help you to make sure that you get the right information and prescription for your specific situation.

Congratulations on what you have learned so far on the subject of glutathione. The more I learn about this amazing substance in each of our cells, the more I am amazed. Glutathione's job in the cells goes way beyond boosting immunity. I know your search for answers will be well rewarded. And again thank you for giving me the opportunity to share with you. I find the sharing of valuable information with those who search for it the most important thing I can do in life.

With you in good health,
LivingWell

resistanceisfruitful
March 15th, 2009, 02:58 AM
I just saw your last question- and yes I am a consultant with Immunotec.

So my ding ding ding warning bells of an approaching opportunist were right after all. You are a piece of work, aren't you? A "consultant" who just happens to be taking advantage of an "opportunity (http://www.immunotec.com/WebFlash/opportunity_overview.wcp?&site=999999)", right?

I won't say Immunocal is a scam. One of the less expensive brands of undenatured whey protein may be worth considering in lieu of NAC and l-glutamine, from I've seen so far.

Spare us the defense and sales pitch. Years of research... Patents... Canadian certification as a natural product...

Yawn.

There's also the affiliated marketing spiel (http://www.immunotec.com/). "Opportunity" or "Attend a meeting" with one of Immunotec's "Executive Diamond Consultants". One of your fellow "consultants (http://www.squidoo.com/Boostyourglutathione)" (unless it's your site) actually promotes Zig Ziglar seminars! I think I mentioned Amway in my first response and I was spot on, wasn't I?

It's also a very interesting coincidence that you chose to join AME the day after I posted my question. I knew that this new site would be indexed for the search engines, and you're living proof that works pretty well, I'd say.

Thanks for your concern and advice, and yes, even some new information, but why the stealth approach? Why didn't you just come into the forum and state clearly and plainly what your intentions were if your product and company are legit and above board?

You have lost what little credibility you had managed to build with me at this point. I don't purchase "products" from multilevel marketing scammers. The tone and style of your posts was a dead give away, yet I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

I would encourage anyone reading this thread to check the links above and do your own research before buying Immunocal or doing business with this company or its "consultants".

I am still optimistically researching the value of undenatured whey protein as a means of boosting glutathione levels. There's some more information about that here (http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/cold-processed-whey.html), but I'm not endorsing or recommending this supplement. Does anyone else use any form of it?

Fondoo
March 15th, 2009, 03:27 AM
I liked the product "Show me the Whey" it's a cocoa flavored mix that both myself and my kid like alot. We just used it to boost protein and give my kids milk a cocoa taste. Seemed easy on the tummy and pocket book.

LivingWell
March 15th, 2009, 03:29 AM
Dear Resistance;

Please take a deep breath, take a moment, and reflect on what you have learned today. Did you learn something valuable? Did you receive the answers to the questions you had? I am not here to pitch or sell, only to inform. The forum is a place to educate people, and I have done my part.

There is no stealth approach here- if that had been the case, I would not have answered your question so directly. I have nothing to hide. Why didn't I just say take Immunocal? Because that is not the purpose of the forum, and it was not my purpose in writing to you. The purpose is to help one another out with useful and valuable information. The fact that you did research and found it on your own speaks for itself. I don't know anything about Zik Ziglar, and I don't know what the affiliate marketing spiel you refer to is about, perhaps you found this on a google search on your own? It wasn't my site. I only gave you my e-mail address so we could talk to one another about your specific situation.

I have been completely up front and honest with you from the get go. I subscribe to a google alert for glutathione to stay informed and see what is new. Your link came into my mailbox, and when I saw your sincere well informed question, it deserved a well informed response. In order to respond I needed to register, so I did. Period. Nothing to hide here. What you do with the information is completely up to you. Please do not let the concern of being "sold to" stand in your way of learning what you sincerely want to know.

Please do not forget that I have absolutely nothing to gain by sharing this with you. I only gain the happiness that results from paying it forward and knowing I have shared valuable information with those that ask. Anyone reading this can read back over the thread and see that I have been upfront about this. It has been my stand from the beginning of this thread and continues to be. Please do your due diligence and research, as I would encourage all readers of this thread to do, and then with the advice of your health care professional, make an informed decision. If Uncle Sam pays for it, all the better. And if he does, I am completely out of the equation. Please- if I am going to be accused of pitching something, shouldn't there be some monetary benefit in doing so?

Please enjoy the book, that was all I wanted to direct you to, to find a well balanced and mutually respected source to answer your question. When I asked if you wanted to know more, I was going to tell you about Jimmy Gutman's book. Sorry it sounded pitchy. It is a highly referenced book of medical studies that does not endorse Immunocal above any other means, just reports the different ways and what the research has shown. The book will indeed cover all forms of GSH up-regulation which is what you seek.

Do the research- because in the end, nothing else matters except that we have credible researched and validated information to base our decisions on.

You are very well read on the subject of glutathione. Where have you found your best information?

resistanceisfruitful
March 15th, 2009, 03:49 AM
Dear Resistance;

and I don't know what the affiliate marketing spiel you refer to is about, perhaps you found this on a google search on your own? It wasn't my site.

The "marketing spiel" is on Immunotec's own website, which I referenced with a link in my comment. You know better. You are one of their "consultants", no?

You do have good advice though. I'm off to do some deep breathing because dealing with you has definitely raised my levels of anxiety and frustration. You are very soft-spoken, but I don't trust you intentions. I really resent marketing people, regardless of how much you protest to the contrary.

Feel free to have the last word. This is my last post to you.

resistanceisfruitful
March 15th, 2009, 03:57 AM
I liked the product "Show me the Whey" it's a cocoa flavored mix that both myself and my kid like alot. We just used it to boost protein and give my kids milk a cocoa taste. Seemed easy on the tummy and pocket book.

But is it denatured whey, Fondoo? From what I've been able to learn so far, most whey protein sold is a by-product of the cheese manufacturing process and has undergone processing at high temperatures that destroy the cysteine in it.

Undenatured whey is processed solely for the whey at much lower temperatures, preserving more of the amino acids, cysteine, etc. which are the components needed for glutathione boosting.

I've found only a few brands so far and they are not consistent with labeling, making comparison difficult. They are approximately half the price of Immunocal and can be purchased without going through home-based consultants/distributors.

LivingWell
March 15th, 2009, 04:04 AM
Dear Resistance;

Thank you for your compliments. I am very sorry to have upset you. Please accept my sincere apologies. I really don't think of myself as a marketer, but as an educator. I have been an educator all of my life, long before I joined this opportunity. I teach people on many levels, and glutathione is a very small part of that picture for me. I am sorry you see me by such a narrow definition, and am sorry that brings up such strong emotions for you.

Please have a good night, and I wish you well in your search for information. You are on the right path, just keep going forward. We are all in this together, and I strongly believe in helping one another out, even if that means we are at times misunderstood. Again I am sincerely sorry to have upset you. That was not my intention.

Sincerely,
LivingWell

resistanceisfruitful
March 15th, 2009, 04:20 AM
Admins:

I don't know all the rules, guidelines and policies regarding the new AME board, but I strongly encourage you (or other readers) to google the email address posted below (Laura@ImmuneHealthSolutions.com) to get a sense of who "LivingWell" really is.

This link (http://econnect.entrepreneur.com/profile_view.aspx?customerid=livingwell)is particularly revealing:
About Me

I am a Wellness Consultant with Immunotec Research , a Biotechnology Research and Marketing Company. We are looking for Wellness Consultants across North America to get the message out about our ground floor opportunity. We are leading the Immune Segment of the $500 Billion + Wellness Industry. The product is called Immunocal and it is backed by 30 years of research and 65 International Patents. Realistic income potential of up to $100,000 a month- over a million a year for those that have a strong work ethic and are willing to put forth regular consistent effort to realize this goal. Contact me for an interview to see if you are right for this company.
I Am Looking For

To find motivated serious entrepreneurs to join our successful team in sharing this life changing opportunity with others. Pre-qualification required.

Personally, I don't care if you're peddling AZT for Burroghs-Wellcome, or Immunocal for Immunotec, this is outrageous behavior for anyone professing to care about individuals or their health.

This pisses me off. I am fighting for my life and she's playing me like a fool. She's a fucking [deleted]! Since when does AME allow [deleted] to be members?

RIF,
Let me jump in. I haven't been paying attention to this tread, but did review the 6 posts made by Living Well and came to the conclusion that there's nothing to be alarmed about. Laura's contribution seems sincere without overtly trying to sell something. There is a tool that can be used by all members to flag and/or report posts, which alert the admins and other members to inappropriate behavior if that so happens. In this case I thought I saw some useful information otherwise, so her posts at this point can stay, but let this be a lesson for the members; be aware of what other people post and to research for yourself. Brian Carter

Fondoo
March 15th, 2009, 03:30 PM
"But is it denatured whey, Fondoo?"
I never checked,I would assume it is not since it is sold at a reasonable price and marketed as a basic protein supplement.

matthewi
March 17th, 2009, 03:02 AM
Glutathione itself is expensive,toxic, and probably ineffective. The best way to replenish levels of it is to take precursors. The big four are selenium, glutamine, cysteine, and tryptophan.

resistanceisfruitful
March 17th, 2009, 03:45 AM
Glutathione itself is expensive,toxic, and probably ineffective. The best way to replenish levels of it is to take precursors. The big four are selenium, glutamine, cysteine, and tryptophan.

Thanks, matt. That's pretty much what I'm doing now:
selenium - 200 mcg daily (have taken as much as 400 mcg)
l-glutamine - 15 mg twice daily
n-acetyl cysteine - 1,000 mg 3x daily (considering 750 mg 4x daily)
tryptophan - 500 mg 1x at night (have taken as much as 1000 mg)
Are there lab tests that can measure glutathione levels to evaluate this? I'll ask my own doc, but it helps to know in advance.

BTW, my earlier comment about IV glutathione was half in jest. It was made just prior to the one about rebounding upside down, which was completely in jest.

moonchild493
March 17th, 2009, 09:18 PM
RIF,

Show Me the Whey (which is similar to Solgar's Whey to Go) is the whey protein recommended to me by a very good nutritionist who has been on Gary Null's radio show. I found it a bit too expensive and sometimes hard to find here, so I am now using Designer Whey's French vanilla, which is sweetened by stevia. All of the other flavors had some sucralose last time I checked. It is highly recommended by Dr. David Williams, who has a popular natural newsletter.

I am also taking L-glutamine powder mixed in with it, largely for its effects on the digestive system since I believe I suffer to some extent from leaky gut, as well as NAC and alpha lipoic acid. I have also taken shark liver oil (alkylglycerol) and colostrum, both highly recommended for immune support in a book called Immunotics, which is very interesting.

I cannot answer whether any of the whey proteins are undenatured, but they all come highly recommended by people who should know what they're talking about. You might want to contact the manufacturers.

I hope this gives you some ideas to research further if you're interested.

Linda

resistanceisfruitful
March 17th, 2009, 09:35 PM
Maybe matthewi could also comment on the benefit of whey as a source of glutathione precursors, or general good health for that matter? Also, is there much difference between the health food/body builder sources compared to the more "medicinal" undenatured formulas?

From the information I've been able to glean so far, I think there is a difference in processing methods, especially regarding the high temperatures use in most health food store brands, which may be the byproduct of commercial cheese making. However, according to the label of a brand I looked at yesterday, it claims to have all the glutathione precursors. If it's on the label it's gotta' be fact, right? (tongue in cheek).

Then there's the issue of dosing, and of course who has conducted any clinical research into whey and "AIDS"?

Jimbo
May 17th, 2009, 06:41 PM
Glutathione itself is expensive,toxic, and probably ineffective. The best way to replenish levels of it is to take precursors. The big four are selenium, glutamine, cysteine, and tryptophan.

Matt:

Do you (or anyone else) have a reference for glutathione supplement toxicity? I ask because Heinrich Kremer recommends 5gm/day for 2-4 weeks for someone with clinical AIDS symptoms.

Tom Moody
June 11th, 2009, 09:37 AM
Glutamine is an amino acid synthesized by the astroglia from another amino acid, called glutamic acid or glutamate.It is a crucial chemical for muscles.In addition, glutamine is very important for the maintenance of immune function. It is the primary fuel source for lymphocytes and macrophage.

NAC (n-acetyl cysteine) is a antioxidant supplements. NAC may work better if combined with other supplements, like glutamine, alpha lipoic acid and vitamin C.

Glutathione is made from the amino acids L-cysteine + L-glutamate + glycine.Glutamine supplementation significantly decreased the incidence of pneumonia, and other life-threatening infections like bacteremia and septicemia, for patients with multiple traumas and who were being fed intravenously.

moonchild493
June 11th, 2009, 10:06 PM
I recently read that L-glutamine needs to be taken away from protein or other amino acids to be effective. I find this pretty inconvenient and wonder if anyone has info on this. I believe I read it on the Life Extension website. Any thoughts?

Linda

StarZ
June 13th, 2009, 02:34 AM
NAC (n-acetyl cysteine) is a antioxidant supplements. NAC may work better if combined with other supplements, like glutamine, alpha lipoic acid and vitamin C.

Glutathione is made from the amino acids L-cysteine + L-glutamate + glycine.Glutamine supplementation significantly decreased the incidence of pneumonia, and other life-threatening infections like bacteremia and septicemia, for patients with multiple traumas and who were being fed intravenously.

What ratio then is most effective. If I took NAC 600mg, Glutathione 1000mg and dietary glycine would that make an impact or would I have to get atleast 500mg glycine (I understand it is a common protein in nature and used as a sweetener in food processing)?

superman
July 2nd, 2009, 03:07 PM
Hey I was going to say take whey protein or skim milk powder or fat free yoghurt (live cultures preferred) then you said it for yourself. I find these proteins cost effective and if they don't help the immune system (hey man protein builds cells) they certainly help bulk up a meal so you eat less and so don't become fat but rather more muscular (a fat hope in my case). The bad publicity given to eggs has now gone away. They too are a good protein source and they say 2 eggs a day is fine.

If you are in the UK, Richard and Judy, middle aged TV presenters tried the ecetyl-L-carnitene and glucosamine or was it glutamine combination for restoring youth and memory. Nothing came of it, except the health food shops made a killing.

Have you tried soya as a cheap protein source?-see my seperate post today.

StarZ
July 5th, 2009, 09:32 PM
Do hemp or sprouted rice instead. Thats the good stuff.

healthcoach4u
August 21st, 2009, 05:55 AM
I've read through all the posts in this thread and and have done a lot of research on the benefits of glutathione in relation to HIV and many other health issues. Here is an example of the latest research. AEGiS-Reuters: Glutathione Helps AIDS Survival (http://www.aegis.org/NEWS/re/1997/RE970301.html)

I personally recommend MaxGXL as a precursor supplement that is proven in double blind crossover studies to raise glutathione levels by up to 292% in 60 days.

Dr. Keller, who created the product worked extensively with AIDS patients and was attempting to improve the quality of life of his patients . You can get more information and see the ingredients and clinical results at this website: (link deleted)
Yes I am an independent distributor of this product, but offer this to help improve the quality of peoples lives. I have lots more information to share but this is my first post in this forum after finding it through google and don't want to step out of line and want to make sure the info is welcomed. Appreciate any feedback.


Moderator note: The commercial link in this post has been deleted, per AME guidelines. Interested parties can find this network marketing (ala Amway) product by googling it. As Healthcoach said, he's not posting this information for personal gain.

resistanceisfruitful
August 21st, 2009, 02:00 PM
Healthcoach4U:

The link you posted with information about "the latest research" on glutathione is dated 1997. The article was published 12 years ago! The study reported on the results of supplementation of N-acetylcysteine (NAC), an inexpensive amino acid that many of us already take, to boost glutathione. It did not study some expensive commercial product being promoted by "network" (aka pyramid) marketers.

Even my allopathic doctor recommends glutamine supplementation. Surely the good Dr. Keller can provide you something more current.

Self promotion for personal gain is not welcome here, but good, solid data is. Network marketing schemes don't impress me, but I'd love to see the published results of the double-blinded study you mentioned?

healthcoach4u
August 23rd, 2009, 04:25 AM
The MaxGXL formulation is a combination of Vitamin C, L-Glutamine, N-Acetyl Cysteine, Alpha Lipoic Acid, and a proprietary GSH Absorption and Recycling blend of, Cordyceps, N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine, Quercetin and Milk Thistle Extract(Silybum Marianum) 80% Silimarin.
Unfortunately Dr. Keller passed away this year after returning from his AIDS work in Tanzania. He was conducting human trials there with another AIDS drug which he formulated and wanted to be able to supply for one dollar a day.
He was on the board of the American Academy of HIV Medicine and fought to keep his discoveries away from the pharmaceutical companies. I understand your dislike of network marketing companies in general, however some of the very best nutritional products over the last thirty years have been brought to market this way, and they're not always that much more expensive than at my local health food store. I feel the same way about the pharmaceutical companies. I hope your dislike of the process of bringing the product to market doesn't interfere with an openmindedness of looking for the best solution to boosting and recycling your GSH.
Wishing you all the best in your search.

I don't have a link to the clinical results that isn't on a company website so I won't be putting that in here again.

resistanceisfruitful
August 23rd, 2009, 03:56 PM
healthcoach4u-

At least you are monitoring the site, so I feel better about not just deleting your original post as spam from a fly-by-night poster. After reviewing your response and the website, I am convinced that it is spam nonetheless.


The MaxGXL formulation is a combination of Vitamin C, L-Glutamine, N-Acetyl Cysteine, Alpha Lipoic Acid, and a proprietary GSH Absorption and Recycling blend of, Cordyceps, N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine, Quercetin and Milk Thistle Extract(Silybum Marianum) 80% Silimarin.

I have used all, or nearly all of the above nutriceuticals in my personal supplementation plan, including the "proprietary GSH Absorption and Recycling blend". The only thing proprietary about this formulation is the quantity and ratio of herbs and amino acids.

I didn't see any information on your website about dosages, but the recommended amount of L-Glutamine alone is 6 grams/day. Add another 3-4 grams for NAC and ALA and you're talking some seriously big pills! Just how many capsules of MaxGXL is recommended daily? Where is the research on dosing?



Unfortunately Dr. Keller passed away this year after returning from his AIDS work in Tanzania. He was conducting human trials there with another AIDS drug which he formulated and wanted to be able to supply for one dollar a day.


The retail price for MaxGXL is $69-85 per month, or nearly three times the amount you state above. Is the extra cost a result of paying multi-level network marketers, like yourself?



He was on the board of the American Academy of HIV Medicine and fought to keep his discoveries away from the pharmaceutical companies.

Nice story, but not very believable. The docs I know who are AAHIVM board certified are major players in the pharma-controlled HIV=AIDS, unless you take the drugs paradigm. MaxGXL does not meet the standards of a pharmaceutical drug. It is nothing more than a blend of existing, legal, non-patentable natural compounds.




I understand your dislike of network marketing companies in general, however some of the very best nutritional products over the last thirty years have been brought to market this way, and they're not always that much more expensive than at my local health food store. I feel the same way about the pharmaceutical companies.


I'm glad you understand that MLM, "network" marketing and pyramid schemes leave a very bad taste in my mouth. They are all greed-based promotional systems.




I hope your dislike of the process of bringing the product to market doesn't interfere with an openmindedness of looking for the best solution to boosting and recycling your GSH.

Wishing you all the best in your search.



Don't try to turn this back on me. I'm not the one trying to make a profit here. The link you posted included your distributor ID, so any orders placed via that link would personally benefit YOU.

Please tell us what in this world entitles you to profit from this product? Did you participate in the "research"? Do you work in the factory that packages it?

No... you simply found an MLM website and joined up to promote it by googling certain terms that might lead you to a forum like AME where you hope someone dealing desperately with health concerns might buy the hoax that MaxGXL is some sort of magical cure. What other MLM products do you "distribute"?

I may need some strong medicine, because reading about the "Opportunity" (http://maxgxl.com/opportunity.php) offered to distributors like you by Max International makes me sick:



Opportunity

Have you ever wondered why over 13 million people are involved with Network Marketing, why they love it and how they are making all that money?


I don't have a link to the clinical results that isn't on a company website so I won't be putting that in here again.

You can't post a link to a clinical trial report on MaxGXL because one has never been performed.

You state in your original post: "I personally recommend MaxGXL as a precursor supplement that is proven in double blind crossover studies to raise glutathione levels by up to 292% in 60 days."

I cannot find this on the MaxGXL website, so please feel free to link to the study (not just the home page).

Finally, the "Success stories" (http://www.maxgxl.com/stories.php) link on the MaxGXL website list reports of "successful" distributors who now live lives of luxury due to pushing the product, not stories of lives improved or changed by taking the product.

I'm calling out the hypocrisy that you want to be perceived as motivated by altruism to share information. Anyone interested in MaxGXL is encouraged to google "MaxGXL scam" as part of their due diligence.

pollyticking
August 26th, 2009, 06:49 PM
A friend tried to persuade me to take this supplement and peddle it. While I don't doubt the excellence of the ingredients and the validity of supplementation, the marketing of this product makes me nuts. Over packaged in little baggies of 3 pills - apparently we are too dumb to count to 3 by ourselves, and way over priced. Works out at about $75 per month. The hype surrounding it is bizarre - it does everything including clean windows. (Ok I exaggerate!). The aim is for all who take it to become marketeers and so keep on with the pyramid. Anyone marketing this product is hoping to make money off it. Not a crime but one that is certainly a conflict of interests. Just as many MD's have a conflict when they push their pills so can the alternate brigade!

Fondoo
August 27th, 2009, 03:11 AM
just thought I would post that my chronic allergies in Hawaii have been greatly helped by what my natural-path has described as NAC's mucous thinning and antibacterial effect.

moonchild493
August 27th, 2009, 02:09 PM
Polly,

Exactly which supplement are you referring to? I take NAC and glutamine and find them quite reasonably priced, so I am assuming it's glutathione. I have read that there are better methods of increasing your glutathione, so I have never considered it.

Linda

StarZ
August 27th, 2009, 03:08 PM
Polly do you mean the GLX?

Very well said all the rest. Here Here!

pollyticking
August 27th, 2009, 07:30 PM
Sorry for the confusion. I meant the Maxell GLX or whatever fancy name it uses. There is definitely value in the ingredients but the packaging and presentation of this product really is offensive to me. I tried suggesting to them that not only was it politically incorrect to over package and to jack up prices if they really wanted to attract users. They were not interested!!!

jee
September 6th, 2009, 07:29 PM
Is glutamine really very useful and helpful with hiv condition? If somebody is not taking any major supplements except 2-3g of Vit C, is it a good advise to start glutamine?

I know there's old research out there that says it helps, but I'm not sure exactly how much one should take and excatly how it helps.

Vitamin, supplement gurus, please throw in your knowledge on this. Thanks!

moonchild493
September 7th, 2009, 06:21 PM
I order mine from Swanson vitamins in powder form. It comes with a little scoop which is about 1 teaspoon and measures 5 grams. I only take it once a day, but you can take it 2 or 3 times. I take it largely for my gut, since I suspect leaky gut syndrome. I think it is also good for keeping your glutathione up and many other things, most of which I can't remember, but you can certainly google it and get some answers.

Linda

resistanceisfruitful
September 7th, 2009, 07:58 PM
Glutamine is one of the precursors for glutathione. I don't know how old the research is, but even my sometimes-enlightened "HIV doc" is a strong believer in glutamine supplementation. He suggests it to fight wasting, but it is also suggested for nervous system and gut disorders.

Heinrich Kremer, author of The Silent Revolution in Cancer and AIDS Medicine is big on the role of glutathione for immune function (he's not a subscriber to the HIV=AIDS theory, btw).

The trick is to get glutathione levels up, but taking glutathione directly doesn't work well, so one provides the precursors for your body to make its own.

I take 1 Tblspoon of l-glutamine powder twice a day, plus 2000 mg NAC and 1200 mg alpha lipoic acid, the other glutathione precursors.

I do notice a difference in my body mass when taking the glutamine and think it's an important supplement. How else can one judge how effective it is for "AIDS"? Lately, my energy has been incredible and I feel better than I have in years... despite a recent DVT blood clot.

All these "helpful" supplements can add up in cost per month. I have put these three near the top of my "must take" list, along with selenium, B12 and a really good probiotic and multivit.

Lately I've been taking an organic whey product specifically formulated to provide the glutathione precursors. It's too soon to know how it's working, but I do like the taste of it better! :)





Is glutamine really very useful and helpful with hiv condition? If somebody is not taking any major supplements except 2-3g of Vit C, is it a good advise to start glutamine?

jee
September 7th, 2009, 11:17 PM
With or without meals? Any better time of day to take?

I would like to try all three for a month and see if I find any difference. Does Vitamin Shoppe carry all three items?

You know if you go to Jonathan Campbell's website for the whole Dr. Rath protocol, there's interesting contradiction. JC states that the virus doesn't exist or is harmless (typical dissident position) but then goes on to say what and why you should take these supplements and how they go and stop hiv replication. I see a lot of that even on this forum, people who don't believe in hiv are taking supplements that are supposed to stop it's replication. Hmmm...

Thanks!

resistanceisfruitful
September 8th, 2009, 12:14 AM
Jee,

I don't practice any particular timing with the supplements I take, other than to space some of them out during the day using a pillminder case. Nor do I freak out if I miss a dose, or even a day or three once in awhile (unlike prescription drugs). Don't misunderstand... I'm very consistent about taking them, but my personal philosophy is that getting too complex with such things is counter-intuitive.

Check online for best pricing. Be aware that cheapest isn't always best. I have found iherb to be reasonable and consistent.

As for the contradiction you note. I've seen this too, but it doesn't bother me that much. I question HIV and AIDS, but that doesn't mean there is no virus. I just don't know but other inconsistencies in the HIV hypothesis make me quite skeptical.

What I do know is that I have had serious health problems that I needed to address. That's not just about taking this supplement, or that one. Supplements are part of an overall strategy of improving my health.

That strategy has also meant changing how I think about nutrition, exercise, toxins/drugs and my mental wellbeing. Those are the common threads I've observed from dissidents on this forum and elsewhere who are recovering from illness.

I do not take any supplements to "fight" a virus (and I've never heard such a claim made for glutamine). I take it because I've read enough evidence to make me think it is probably helpful for immune dysfunction/deficiencies.

Why are you considering taking them, if you don't mind me asking.

moonchild493
September 8th, 2009, 01:16 PM
I have read in several places that glutamine should not be taken with other amino acids. I assume that also means protein foods. I try to take mine when I first get up, allowing an hour before eating, or 2 hours after a meal. It's more trouble than just mixing it in a shake, but I want to maximize the usefulness. I believe the Life Extension website has some good info on it and how to take it.

resistanceisfruitful
September 8th, 2009, 05:51 PM
Linda (moonchild493),

Thanks for that info re: taking glutamine with other aminos or protein, I'll check into it further. I also notice you take a considerably smaller dose than I do.

It goes to show how much we lack when the medical research industry turns its back on studying and publishing results for nutritional supplements and alternative health systems in favor of Pharma-only medical strategies.

It takes considerable effort to wade through the information that is available. I've found that I had to learn to trust my own ability to listen to my body, and a willingness to adapt. I've been following a non-pharma track for over two years now and am still adapting and modifying my personal approach as I go.

The whey product (RenewPro) with glutathione precursors, as well as the l-glutamine powder recommend taking on an empty stomach, waiting at least 15 minutes before a meal, which is consistent with your info. On the other hand, it says it's OK to mix with milk (dairy is taboo for some folks), or non-dairy drink, which seems a bit inconsistent. I use water for the powder and chew the whey right out of the container. Yumm...!

I usually do take it as suggested and just realized I probably follow more of a routine than I admitted previously. Still, it's nothing like the old AZT timers that buzzed to remind you to take your meds "on time", or the other compulsive dosing schedules of ARVs.

moonchild493
September 8th, 2009, 06:22 PM
Well, it just keeps getting more and more confusing, doesn't it? Several years ago, I saw a nutritionist who includes among his credentials appearances on Gary Null's show, for whatever that's worth. He highly recommended a whey protein called Show Me the Whey, similar to Solgar's Whey to Go. It contains some hydrolyzed whey, which he says is good for some reason. The shake recipe he gave me indicated it should be taken at least 20 minutes before breakfast if you were having other breakfast. I don't think there's a problem with taking this rather close to other foods. It seems to be the individual aminos that should be taken separately, which I don't really understand, since they're all mixed up in food. Maybe I should reread what Life Extension had to say on the subject, and maybe I should be taking more glutamine. Who knows?

Linda

G Man
September 8th, 2009, 06:27 PM
Guys, (and gals)

This is the quandry that I'm in. I read all these posts about supplements to boost the immune system. I mean, I guess they might do some good whether or not you have 'HIV'. But I'm wondering, if everyone here thinks that HIV is basically harmless, or possibly even nonexistent, why bother searching for alternative treatments or seeking out immune building supplements?

My belief is that HIV doesn't do much, if any, harm on its own. I'm in the 'cofactor' camp , meaning that hard drugs and a hard lifestyle have a lot to do with the positives who fall ill. Not that it's scientific at all, but eveyrone I've known whos died from "AIDS" has had major cofactors, which I believe contributed greatly to their deaths.

I'm just wondering if I should start investigating some of these immune boosting supplements. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt, but why bother if I don't have any cofactor 'risks' and I already feel fine and healthy?

moonchild493
September 8th, 2009, 06:57 PM
Gman,

I always say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Unfortunately, I was very broke and needed a great deal of fixing. Just trying to live healthily did not do it for me, and I got very sick for the second time and no amount of natural means helped at all. Maybe your immune system could use some support, and maybe it doesn't need it. Mine definitely seems to need it. I just got in some EpiCor, a yeast extract that was originally an animal feed supplement. When it was discovered that those who worked directly with the substance never seemed to get sick, they did some investigation and created a product for humans. It appears to be an immune modulator rather than booster, which I think is important when the possibility of autoimmune problems exists. I'm sure they have some very interesting info on their website.

So if you're feeling really well, you might just leave well enough alone. I don't think it has anything to do with "hiv", but some of us just seem to have immune problems which probably lead to testing poz in the first place. And in my case, there weren't any cofactors. I had absolutely none of the risk factors. I suspect to this day that I became ill because of extreme stress on top of a bad cold or flu. I am currently investigating several mind/body methods other than the yoga and meditation I already do. I don't think the importance of emotions in all this can be overestimated.

Linda

G Man
September 8th, 2009, 07:05 PM
Thanks Linda. In some strange way, I think it might be a BENEFIT to be HIV positive, because it makes one stay on top of his/her health. A healthy lifestyle is important regardless of 'HIV' status, but you and I are particularly cognisant of that fact due to the 'gift' we've been given of a positive test. My mamma, god rest her soul, always told me that when life gives you lemons, go out there and make lemonade!

moonchild493
September 8th, 2009, 07:34 PM
You're welcome. And your mamma sounds like she was a great lady. Mine was depressed most of the time! Now that my daughter knows I'm off the drugs again, she'll be picking up on every little health problem I encounter, like the week-and-a-half long bout of diarrhea I've just recovered from. She tried to convince my doctor that it might have something to do with not taking the drugs, but he wouldn't bite. I guess I can't blame her too much, since she saw me get really sick and was actually researching nursing homes just in case! So I have extra incentive to stay really healthy.

resistanceisfruitful
September 8th, 2009, 07:42 PM
G Man -

I think Linda nailed it. It's not so much about "HIV", at least for some of us who have good reason to be suspicious of the claims about a viral causation of "AIDS".

HOWEVER, there is little doubt in my mind that some of us have damaged immune systems for a variety of reasons, and maybe the Gallo test reflects that. I wasn't as "fast-track" as some gay men, but I did my share of experimentation with illicit drugs, including poppers, and was very promiscuous when younger. In addition to all the environmental toxins everyone deals with, I've also had a fair amount of exposure to asbestos, VOCs and pesticides/herbicides. Thirdly, there is a family history of auto-immune disorders, including myelofibrosis and Reynaud's syndrome.

I don't need a virus to explain having health problems and immune deficiency. I'm not sure why you keep tracking on the notion that we're trying to fight a virus.

I didn't get very sick until after testing positive and starting HAART in 1998, followed by more drugs to deal with side effects, until I was taking more than two dozen prescription drugs in 2006-07 (not including ARVs, which I quit in 2003). I was probably taking antibiotics more weeks than not in those years as well. I couldn't walk and could barely talk. All those drugs were killing me.

I'm not only trying to support my immune system, but to recover from the tremendous damage done to my health by an overdose of pharmaceuticals and misguided beliefs the past several years.

The longer I get away from that damaging medical "lifestyle", the healthier I feel and probably the less likely I need to take so many supplements. I suffer some of the same human failings that have allowed AIDS to exist so long and sometimes react out of fear and ignorance.

I think you are absolutely right about being positive is the reason some of us have focused so strongly on our health.

Oh... there are also some members here who don't think nutritional supplements have much value. I'm kinda' surprised none of them have joined in this conversation yet. Maybe some people can get all of their needs from diet, but I'm not there yet.

If you are healthy and feel good (my definition of good health), then I don't see why you would need to do a lot of supplementation. If you feel your body has been weakened and is toxic, get thee to a good nutritionist or alternative practitioner, if you can.

resistanceisfruitful
September 8th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Linda,

The dosing for glutamine powder is from my DO, of all people. He's not an alternative practitioner, but he does have a more wholistic outlook than most.

Check out the whey supplements again. It seems to me there are several of them out now that are not byproducts of cheese production, which you want to avoid, and that prices have dropped. The description should specify that the product is "nondenatured".

I'm using one called RenewPro, which I get from iHerb, but I just discovered it is even less expensive at another site. The "natural" flavored is actually quite tasty, but then I like sauerkraut too. LOL. Less than $1/day. Whey to Go is probably a very good product, but does seem to cost much more.



Maybe I should reread what Life Extension had to say on the subject, and maybe I should be taking more glutamine. Who knows?

Linda

G Man
September 8th, 2009, 07:53 PM
G Man -

I don't need a virus to explain having health problems and immune deficiency. I'm not sure why you keep tracking on the notion that we're trying to fight a virus.


Good point. I'm not really 'tracking' on that, I'm just trying to understand why all the supplementation if you think HIV has nothing to do with anything. I think I'm gaining a better understanding now based upon yours and Linda's explanations. What you're telling me is that you're not doing it to 'fight a virus', but for other reasons, including but not limited to your previous exposure to HIV meds and other chemicals and pharmaceuticals. I get it.

The fact that I have never taken ARV's to begin with and the fact that I'm pharma free may have given me a huge leg up health wise, I'm hoping so.

resistanceisfruitful
September 8th, 2009, 07:54 PM
The fact that I have never taken ARV's to begin with and the fact that I'm pharma free may have given me a huge leg up health wise, I'm hoping so.

Can I quote you on that?!

:D

G Man
September 8th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Can I quote you on that?!

:D

Of course! You have to remember that I'm still learning. From a small child I've been taught that HIV=AIDS and death. It takes baby steps to get that notion to exit my psyche completely. The people here on this forum have done an excellent job explaining things in more detail to me, and for that you and the others have my eternal gratitude.

jee
September 15th, 2009, 01:10 AM
Jee,

I do not take any supplements to "fight" a virus (and I've never heard such a claim made for glutamine). I take it because I've read enough evidence to make me think it is probably helpful for immune dysfunction/deficiencies.

Why are you considering taking them, if you don't mind me asking.

And that's one of the reasons why I want to take them too. But also read recently that it is an appetite suppressant which will NOT work for me. My appetite is already non-existent, I need to increase it not decrease it.

resistanceisfruitful
September 15th, 2009, 02:29 AM
Jee... interesting. One of the reasons l-glutamine is recommended for pozzies is to fight "wasting syndrome" and protect or build lean body mass. I don't think it increases appetite particularly, just helps with absorption of nutrients. It has several other benefits as well though, if you research it.

I just found some sites that claim l-glutamine is an appetite suppressant as well. It seems they are referencing its effect at stabilizing glucose and reducing "cravings". It's an amino acid, so I doubt it would have the same effect as amphetamines or phenfen (sp?) or some of those.

You can try it for a few weeks and see if you notice a reduction in appetite.

BTW... what are you doing to increase your appetite? I remember how hard it is to eat well when one isn't hungry (though that problem seems to have gone away now as well).

moonchild493
September 15th, 2009, 05:09 PM
Huh. In that case, I think I'll start taking more glutamine. I could cerrtainly use a little appetite suppression right now. I do remember how awful it was when I was coughing so much that it made me throw up and my appetite was all but nonexistent. A happy medium would be nice...

jee
September 16th, 2009, 03:43 AM
Hi RIF,

There's not much I can do about increasing appetite, I try to eat as best as I can, mostly veggies, some beans, lentils, and chicken. With the chronic fatigue that candida produces, it is extremely difficult sometimes to even walk up to the kitchen to steam some veggies.

moonchild493
September 16th, 2009, 11:07 AM
jee,

It sounds like you may not be getting enough protein, I know it's hard to think about when your appetite just isn't there, but could you at least try a good whey protein powder, maybe mixed with some coconut milk or something? It seems like that might go down easy. I just know that when I had difficulty eating is when I got really sick. It might even be a form of malnutrition. Please try to take care of yourself.

cdm
September 16th, 2009, 03:49 PM
If you are afraid of probiotics, I would strongly recommend you to take a combination of all of these ingredients, included in this product.
Dr. Matthias Rath | www.Dr-Rath.com (http://www.dr-rath.com/en/products/illioforte.html)

Glutamine may work better in synergy with folate, B12 and B6. All these help the division of gut cells. The rest may help digestion and assimilation.

StarZ
September 17th, 2009, 03:20 AM
Coconut milk/water products seem to have too much sugar left ovr in them. Try oil insead. Candida is a long hard battle. Whey drives my belly mad for some reason, so I take hemp or fermented rice protein sun warrior instead. Eat constantly. Thick juices are best. Even if you mix a litre a day and get down half in mouthfuls throughout the day (ie mix in the protein glutamine VitC coconut oil etc) you are better off. If you can also do 3 small meals for routine sake even better. Dont fall off the wagon.

Aion
September 21st, 2009, 08:23 PM
I don't see much talk about enzymes here. Without a decent digestive enzyme complex, or specific foods that have bio-available enzymes, you are really not going to get the full effects of any supplementation.

And remember, all metabolic process rely on the interaction of enzymes and co-enzymes, which are generally the vitamins and minerals.

I find also that Selenium is almost universally neglected, yet a necessary mineral/co-enzyme for many immune-related processes. It's really a pity since you can get all the selenium you need by just eating Brazil nuts; or if you are allergic to nuts, like me, by using any over the counter anti-dandruff shampoo a couple times a week that has selenium sulfide in it.

Also, NAC supplementation requires ascorbic acid supplementation. I also wonder why lipoic acid is neglected in this discussion. Maybe I missed it.

resistanceisfruitful
September 21st, 2009, 08:57 PM
Aion,

This thread has seven pages of discussion. Are you looking at all of it? There's this post (http://forums.aidsmythexposed.com/alternative-medicine/5506-glutamine-vs-nac-vs-glutathione-supplementation-5.html#post32237), and this one (http://forums.aidsmythexposed.com/alternative-medicine/5506-glutamine-vs-nac-vs-glutathione-supplementation-3.html#post35713), and probably others in this thread that mention most of these same things.

It's easy to miss large portions of an AME thread if one doesn't see these links to previous pages. They are not very prominent, imo.

Thanks though for re-asserting the importance of a larger, "wholistic", if you will, view of nutrition and supplementation.

Aion
September 21st, 2009, 09:25 PM
Oh wow, thanks... Still getting the hang of the layout here !

:-)

qwer1423
December 18th, 2009, 11:08 PM
Hello RIF,
I kinda read through 4 pages in this thread ... got a lil tired,
anyway .... I am wondering how beneficial do you find taking in the glutamine ?
My father is sort of bothered by hepatitis B, he's the carrier I guess .. not too sure how english phrase that....
So... I am also wondering whether glutamine / (or other simple combinations can help in aiding his immune system, and make he feel less tired everyday)
I am sorry this question is not really AIDS / HIV related ... but more generally related to glutamine / glutathione.

I am not sure whether you have read this, or whether this would be of any help, but I found the following pdf file online, and I will post the pdf here ...

jonathan barnett
December 19th, 2009, 10:30 AM
qwer,

I have noticed that I have more energy and feel better when taking glutamine powder. I have also managed to avoid seasonal flus, colds, etc., so I think it has helped strengthen my immune system as well.

I do not know how well glutamine supplementation would help your father with hepB, but I don't see how it could hurt. I doubt if any single supplement will make a big difference in anybody's health; that requires a wholesale change in diet and attitude as well.

The document you posted was interesting, in that it addressed my original question about glutamine supplementation to raise glutathione levels. Unfortunately, the study used intravenous supplementation, rather than oral, which is what most of us would consider trying.

StarZ
January 3rd, 2010, 06:31 AM
I agree RIF, glutamine is a very good stand alone supplement, it does energise and on the ;ack I use it says supports recuperation from illness, hangovers and other oxidating things...the kick I equate only to l-carnatine, altho the glutamine also lasts longer, I do take it in higher dose though as l-carnitine is far more dangerous...

AbundantLife
January 23rd, 2010, 04:20 AM
Hi,

Was helping a friend find some nutritional support on cancer & came upon your post. You're right on about your discussion on the importance of Glutathione [GSH] for immune function & so much more. Master AO in our bodies & linked to every known health challenge & aging.

Sounds like you've been doing a lot of good things for support. Increasing GSH is key. I've been introduced to a patented, clinically proven, Glutathione precusor. Double blind placebo controlled - increases of intracellular GSH on average 292%. Huge! I've been into nutrition & fitness for over 15 years & this is an absolutely phenomenal discovery. I've experienced increased energy, quicker recovery, better sleep, improved focus & memory. My husbands' liver enzymes which were very elevated 89, are now down to 21.

Please check out the links below & feel free to e-mail me/request clinicals, abstract etc. Glad to share as this would provide you a clinically proven, highly effective way to increase your GSH & I'm sure save you quite a bit of money, plus help you trim down the number of supplements you're taking.

To Your Health,
AbundantLife

Dr Robert Keller:

(outdated and commercial links deleted - Moderator)





Glutathione deficiency is a well documented (http://www.google.com/search?q=glutathione+deficiency+immune&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) condition in those with immune deficiency, cancer, MS and other chronic conditions. There's quite a bit of discussion about this in the AME archives as well.

The information I've found about supplementing, however, is confusing.

I have been using glutamine powder (a precursor to glutathione) supplementation intermittently for several years on the advice of an allopathic HIV specialist. Other references recommend another precursor, n-acetyl cycteine (NAC) for supplementation, which I've also been using the last two years. Acetyl l-carnitine (ALCAR) is yet another glutathione "booster" that is in my oversized list of supplements.

Needless to say, I'd like to reduce the quantities of supplements I'm taking.

Apparently taking glutathione itself orally is not very effective, due to low absorption rates in the digestive tract. There are some sublingual glutathione (http://www.iherb.com/Search.aspx?kw=glutathione%20sublingual) products available, but I'm not sure how they compare for dosing.

Does anyone have any additional information about the best supplement to counter glutathione deficiency? Are there other reasons to take NAC and carnitine besides glutathione deficiency?

jonathan barnett
March 26th, 2010, 02:24 AM
For those interested in boosting glutathione levels, there is this report (http://nybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/25/pharmanac-study-cystic-fibrosis/) I found on the New York Buyer's Club site.

I think I've mentioned before that this site often has pretty good info on supplements and alternative treatments for immune dysfunction.

I'm also waiting to hear from my Naturopath about a new glutathione cream formulation. The glutathione is absorbed through the skin, thus avoiding the problems of oral administration (ineffective) without resorting to intravenous administration. It sounds promising.

brume
March 26th, 2010, 02:41 AM
I was wondering about a related topic after reading the sad story about Kim Bannon recently. I read a while ago, but can't find back what I read than, that in desperated cases intravenous glutathion sometimes can do wonders. I kept it in mind, thinking that if ever we would be in such a case, I would (try to) ask for that (by now I know that it would be a request to deaf ears anyway.)
After reading that terribly sad story of Kim Bannon, I checked again google for intravenous glutathion and found this time a link with parkinson disease (one of the links, but I'm not yet allowed to post links, is http://glutathionetherapy.com/IV-Glutathione.html). And given that Kim seems to suffer of parkinson like symptoms... Maybe?! Ok, naive. Anyway, I wondered if they'd even tried.

jonathan barnett
March 26th, 2010, 03:31 AM
Why wait until you need IV glutathione? Anyone can take some supplementation of the precursors to boost their own levels. Most of them are quite inexpensive, except maybe the L-Glutamine in large quantities.

These are all discussed earlier in this thread.


I kept it in mind, thinking that if ever we would be in such a case, I would (try to) ask for that (by now I know that it would be a request to deaf ears anyway.)

AbundantLife
March 26th, 2010, 05:20 AM
Yes, so true. Glutathione supplementation itself is almost totally ineffective, can't make it through the digestion process. IV GSH is effective in the bloodstream but extremely expensive and very short lived. Glutathione (GSH)patches are OK, they can provide some benefit as do trying to mix a number of the precursors, best idea but very difficult to do with any type of success.

Working with docs who have worked with and know GSH, best to date are increases ranging 10-40% avg. They have been able to achieve some success this way. Not until Dr Robert Keller, who, to find a better way for his patients, researched studied and tested multiple formulas over a decade plus, was there an actual way, clinically proven to increase 'intracellular glutathione'. This is the key. It's inside the cell, every cell,(Over 90%) where the GSH is most needed to provide maximum energy and proper structure and function.

Dr Keller's formula is double blind placebo control tested to increase GSH an average of 276% in 60 days. Huge! This is an opportunity to benefit mankind.

(multi-level marketing links deleted - Moderator)

To Your Health,
Abundant Life...

Telemachos
May 3rd, 2010, 02:59 AM
I started reading this thread for information about glutathione, but now my head is spinning! I think I need to sift through this information more thoroughly. For now, I want to ask a couple of questions about whey.

First of all, I have several bottles of whey sitting in my refrigerator. It's a by-product of home cheese-making. I take milk (raw, I don't know if pasteurized would work) or yogurt, and let it sit at room temperature until it separates. I then pour it into a strainer lined with a cheesecloth over a bowl. The yellowish liquid that drips down into the bowl is whey; the solid white part that remains above is curds and becomes a kind of simple cheese. Is this the same whey that was discussed in this thread? And if so, will it have the same health-giving properties? Is it what you call denatured? Because in fact I almost never do anything with this whey, except occasionally use a spoon for something like making sauerkraut. It would be strange if I was letting a real health food go to waste!

The second question is, does whey even have to be separated to have an effect? If whey is a component of milk, would just drinking milk be as good?

Telemachos
May 3rd, 2010, 03:04 AM
Do hemp or sprouted rice instead. Thats the good stuff.

Hi StarZ, could you comment specifically on what you recommend hemp and sprouted rice for? I eat brown rice almost every day. Awhile ago I spent about a month or two eating sprouted brown rice, but I didn't notice much of a difference so I went back to regular brown rice.

jonathan barnett
May 3rd, 2010, 11:38 AM
Because in fact I almost never do anything with this whey, except occasionally use a spoon for something like making sauerkraut. It would be strange if I was letting a real health food go to waste!

Good questions. I do not have the answers and it sounds like it will take some research to get them. What I recall about whey is that commercial cheese makers use heat in some point of the manufacturing process, which destroys the glutathione precursors in the whey. It doesn't sound like that would be the case in your situation.




The second question is, does whey even have to be separated to have an effect? If whey is a component of milk, would just drinking milk be as good?

I doubt it would be the same. Like the sauerkraut you mentioned, making cheese involves fermentation, which involves microorganisms that change the food into something new.

That's just my guess though, Telemachos.

It does sound like you have a very healthy diet, though!