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View Full Version : Multiple HIV Tests?? (ame-g153)



msn_epaul72
September 22nd, 2002, 01:35 PM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2><DIV>hey all,</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>wondering if someone could shed some light.&nbsp; the cdc states that there are "other" test available other than the hiv-antibody test in order to detect the precence of hiv (b/c the costs of these tests are so&nbsp;expensive, they aren t performed as often).&nbsp; they include (see <A target=_top href="http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/faq/faq8.htm">www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/faq/faq8.htm</A> for info):</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Radioimmunoprecipitation assay (RIPA)</DIV> <DIV>Rapid latex agglutination assay</DIV> <DIV>Dot-blot immunobinding assay</DIV> <DIV>p24 antigen capture assay</DIV> <DIV>Polymerase chain reaction (PCR)</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>from what i read on the cdc site, it seems that these tests are capable of determining the presense of the hiv&nbsp;virus (rather than just the hiv-antibody).</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>question:&nbsp; what do these tests account for?&nbsp; unless i m wrong, i understood they have not yet been able to isolate&nbsp;an hiv virus (according to the koch postulate).&nbsp; also, wouldn t it seem that if there was a test that was able to account for an actual virus, it would somehow become the standard (irregardless of the cost)&nbsp;rather than testing for&nbsp;the hiv-antibody which has so many potential erroneous causes?</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>i look forward to your thoughts.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>thanks.&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_aidsmythexposed-dot-com
September 22nd, 2002, 05:54 PM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2>Hello there!<BR><BR>Thanks for this post and welcome to the board! Most of these tests you mention are just variations on the same theme: antibodies (the origin of which is actually UNKNOWN) which are reacting to antigens(proteins) which have been ASCRIBED to "HIV" despite the fact that there is <a target=_top href="http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/epreplypd.htm">NO PROOF</a> that these proteins are specific to "HIV".<BR><BR>The techniques you listed, except for PCR, of course, involve doing various things, like adding radioactive tracers, to the patient s serum which is supposed to contain the antibodies that are supposed to be specific to "HIV". Agglutination is a gathering or clumping of the antibody/antigen complexes. Also, it s interesting that on <a target=_top href="http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/faq/faq8.htm">THE CDC LINK</a> that you provided, they do not express much confidence in the P24 antigen assay: "Because some activity of p24 antigen is unpredictable, this test is not useful for helping people find out if they<BR> have HIV". This is quite an understatement. As if detecting ONE non-specific protein is somehow supposed to be better than detecting several non-specific proteins! For more on the problems surrounding P24 and all the other so-called "HIV proteins", perhaps you should review <a target=_top href="http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/epwbtest.htm">THIS IMPORTANT STUDY</a>.<BR><BR>The same problem that applies to the antibody tests for so-called "HIV" also applies to the PCR test or any OTHER genetic "HIV" test or TYPE of test for "HIV": again, as you state in your post, there is <a target=_top href="http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/epreplypd.htm">NO GOLD STANDARD</a> for "HIV". For more problems specific to the PCR test, please see <a target=_top href="http://www.aidsrealitycheck.org/arc_pages/hivtests_index.html#vl">OUR PAGE ON "VIRAL LOAD" TESTS</a>.<BR><BR>I hope this was helpful. Thanks again for your interest in our issues, and please let us know if you have any other questions!<BR><BR>All the best,<BR>Rod Knoll<BR>Founder<BR><a target=_top href="http://www.aidsrc.org">AIDS REALITY CHECK</a></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_epaul72
September 23rd, 2002, 12:58 AM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2><DIV>rod,</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>thank you for your explanation/confirmation.&nbsp; i have found that your website(s) as well as the thanfully quite a few other out there provide information that is both insightfull and encouraging.&nbsp; being a gay man living in los angeles who "came out" about 7 years ago after a lot of drug/alcohol use to cover that fact as well as a myriad of other things.&nbsp; the possibility of contracting hiv and aids kept me "in" and "using" for a long time.&nbsp; much into my recovery i was still faced with the fear that not only affected my behaviors and interactions but allowed me to use it as a way to beat myself up that the lifestyle i led (lead) would only lead to death.&nbsp; morbid yes, however, quite the truth (20+ years in the making).&nbsp; my belief is that when the student is ready the teacher will appear and that is what has happened in beginning my journey toward this viewpoint.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>my revation came about 1 and 1/2 months ago when a friend tested positive and then a man i was interested in dating was hiv positive.&nbsp; a good friend of mine had told me about ozone treatments a while ago and their benefits.&nbsp; i looked into those methods and ended up coming across your website as well as picking up a multitude of books including "what if everything you thought about aids was wrong" and "why we will never will the war on aids."&nbsp; an amazing incident happened when i was doing some reading...i stopped and began to cry and the FEAR that had been present surrounding this seemingly deadly disease literally ran out of my body.&nbsp; IT WAS AMAZAZING (probably one of the most profound experiences in my 29 years).&nbsp; i believe a lot in energy and listening to one s heart for answers (god voice?).&nbsp; however, since then my struggles have begun (of course of my own doing)...:</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>i was amazed that aids was not ONE disease but rather 29 different ones.&nbsp; the fact that doctors threw out the koch principle with regards to finding the hiv virus.&nbsp; the fact that azt was developed 30+ years ago for chemo(cancer) and shelved b/c it killed lab mice.&nbsp; that it has been proven that cocktails cause some of the 29 different aids defining diseases.&nbsp; that someone who is hiv negative can have a viral load and low t-cell count (worse than someone who is positive) and that the fda hasn t approved the test yet it is used to take babies away from their mothers....blah blah blah - it s all on your site i know.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>my frustrations come from the fact that my friend who tested positive i asked him to go to his doctor and ask his doctor to test him individually for each of the 70 different factors that could give you a "positive" hiv antibody result - find out specifically what you suffer from.&nbsp; he declined saying that he isn t going to go on the cocktails and will just "live" his life.&nbsp; the fact that i spoke to a man who had tested postive yet had been with his boyfriend for 2 1/2 years (monogomously), had tested negative before the relationship and after testing positive after the relationship (having slept with no one else) found out that his boyfriend was NEGATIVE still. he was content, living life to it s fullest despite the diagnosis (he didn t want to hear&nbsp;about my readings).&nbsp; as i stated, the teacher will appear when the student is ready.&nbsp; i have found that no matter what i can only share my experience, i will drive myself crazy if i try to push my views on someone :)</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>i guess my biggest concern is for a very good friend of mine who tested positive 7 years ago (he led a life, for survival which put him in very risky behavior).&nbsp; he has been taking meds for 2 years now and he shows it (ie: face wasting).&nbsp; upon talking to him about my readings (he was very interested in knowing) i was shocked that he didn t know anything about what i was talking about (i am now not suprised).&nbsp; he said to me that he believed the doctors and did what they said b/c they said he would die if he didn t.&nbsp; i am faced now with a friend who was already scared b/c of his health and now i m basically telling him that if he continues to take the meds he will slowly die from them...</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>rod, i m not quite sure what i m trying to accomplish with all of the above but i believe that there is a reason why i have stumbled across what i have.&nbsp; i am negative but as a result of my findings have begun to take better care of myself.&nbsp; i walked around ucla last night and saw all the new research buildings...more money to find a CURE for a whole lot of stuff - why don t they spend the billions of dollars figuring out a really good way to clean people out :)</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>i applaud you and everyone who champions this idea (for nothing else it has enabled me to get through the fear that once crippled me).&nbsp; and if nothing else i hope that i can find those people close to me who are interested in learning so that possibly their fears can be removed as well (one at a time :)&nbsp; ).</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>best,</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>epaul72</DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_MrChristopher
September 23rd, 2002, 02:14 AM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2>Hi epaul72,<BR>I m really glad to have read through your posts. Welcome to the wonderful world that the experts never told us about.<BR><BR>I was particularly struck by your statement about the fear leaving your body. I ve only been at this for about 2 months myself but feel that I have been transformed in some ways also. I, too, lived with this HIV fear for years. In fact, many, many times after having sex (good ol safe sex) I would go home and feel this anxiety that wouldn t fully dissapate until my next negative test came around. That goddamn 3 to 6 month window period between exposure and seroconversion was maddening.<BR><BR>I had a similar experience that you had. I started going through the information and suddenly had this, ah-ha experience, like I was finally reading the truth.<BR><BR>A friend sent me this audio file of an interview with Christine Maggiore. http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2002/07/13738.php<BR><BR>It s really good.<BR><BR>Anyway, I think we can add one more enlightened person to the world.<BR><BR>Chris</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_aidsmythexposed-dot-com
September 23rd, 2002, 03:49 AM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2>epaul:<BR><BR>Thanks again for your post. As far as the tests are concerned, suffice it to say, NONE of the tests you mentioned actually isolate "HIV". They all assume that a gold standard for "HIV" already exists and that the main panel of tests-the elisa and western blot-are specific to "HIV". As you now know, there is <a target=_top href="http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/epreplypd.htm">NO GOLD STANDARD FOR "HIV"</a> and there is <a target=_top href="http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/epwbtest.htm">NO PROOF OF THE SPECIFICITY OF *ANY* "HIV TEST"</a>.<BR><BR>Thank you as well for your candid revealing of the "wake-up call" you experienced after coming across our information. It s always comforting to know there are others out there who went through what we went through. I, too, stayed up MANY a long night reading and reading everything I could when I first came across this information (sometimes I still do that :-). And, of course, I OFTEN came to tears then and I still do now from time to time. It s all part of the wonderful experience of being a human being. I m glad someone else has done it, too. It makes me feel less "weird" my own experience to find out about someone else s, and, once again, thank you for your candor.<BR><BR>Getting back to the tests, I was going to wait until I had all the details to tell you all this, but I ll toss you all a teaser. It seems that a certain "HIV elisa test" was withdrawn from the market after <a target=_top href="http://robertogiraldo.com">THIS DISSIDENT RESEARCHER</a> performed <a target=_top href="http://robertogiraldo.com/eng/papers/EveryoneTestsPositive.html">THIS NOTORIOUS EXPERIMENT</a> with said test. The natural conclusion would be that the test was withdrawn from the market by its manufacturer AS A RESPONSE to the results of the experiment which has received widespread publicity on the internet, but I will reveal more details tomorrow after further investigation!<BR><BR>All the best to you all,<BR>Rod Knoll<BR>Founder<BR><a target=_top href="http://www.aidsrc.org">AIDS REALITY CHECK</a>K</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_aidsmythexposed-dot-com
September 24th, 2002, 05:22 PM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2>Gang:<BR><BR>It appears that the test kit I mentioned at the end of my previous post was removed from the market as part of a large action that the U.S. FDA (Food &amp; Drug Administration) took against the manufacturer, Abbott Labs. In the manufacture of some of its diagnostic products, Abbott, it seems, had been employing standards of quality that were at the "minimum", to put it as politely as the FDA has written. The test kit in question, an "HIV-1 EIA (or elisa)", was withdrawn from the market in January, 2000 and was never marketed again.<BR><BR>Despite the fact that the official reason for the withdrawal of the test kit from the market appears to have had nothing to do with the results of <a target=_top href="http://robertogiraldo.com/eng/papers/EveryoneTestsPositive.html">THIS NOTORIOUS EXPERIMENT</a> which was carried out by <a target=_top href="http://robertogiraldo.com">DISSIDENT RESEARCHER DR. ROBERTO GIRALDO</a>, I found it interesting that a technical support rep. from Abbott did tell me that the test that replaced it has "more sensitivity"!<BR><BR>In other words, since January, 2000, there is no longer a test kit for "HIV" currently on the market that requires that the patient s serum be diluted 400 times. I believe the highest dilution rate for patient serum in any test kit currently on the market is for one of the western blots, which requires a 1:51 ratio. This is still, as Dr. Giraldo points out, a pretty sizable rate of dilution, though.<BR><BR>I am including below a warning that is from one of the other "HIV elisa" test kits that Abbott still has on the market.<BR><BR>I hope this was enlightening!<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Rod Knoll<BR>Founder<BR><a target=_top href="http://www.aidsrc.org">AIDS REALITY CHECK</a><BR><BR><img src=http://aidsrealitycheck.org/arc_main_graphics/abbott_dl.jpg>Y</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_UNKNOWN_AUTHOR_NAME
September 24th, 2002, 05:29 PM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2><FONT color=red>This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.</FONT></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_aidsmythexposed-dot-com
September 24th, 2002, 06:04 PM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2>Gang:<BR><BR>I apologize for the repeated messages. I added <a target=_top href="http://groups.msn.com/aidsmythexposed/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=40">THE "HIV" TEST KIT DISCLAIMER</a> I mentioned to <a target=_top href="http://groups.msn.com/aidsmythexposed/shoebox.msnw">OUR GALLERY OF PHOTOS</a>.<BR><BR>While you re at it, you should have another look at our gallery. It seems that many other photos have been added recently.<BR><BR>Also, if anyone can offer me tutorials on how to add images to these messages here, please <a target=_top href="mailto:rod@aidsrealitycheck.org">E-MAIL ME</a> privately. Thanks!<BR><BR>Rod Knoll<BR><a target=_top href="http://www.aidsrc.org">AIDS REALITY CHECK</a><BR><BR>?</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_MrChristopher
September 25th, 2002, 02:25 AM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2>Gee, it makes one wonder how many people got their positive test results back from one of those highly 99.9%" reliable Abbot Labs ALISA tests. I wonder how many people went on toxic meds because of it.<BR><BR>Chris</FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_aidsmythexposed-dot-com
September 25th, 2002, 08:33 AM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2>Gang:<BR><BR>Another important point I don t think I have made regarding so-called "HIV tests" concerns <a target=_top href="http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/cjtestfp.htm">THIS FAMOUS LIST</a> of factors known to cause a false positive reaction on "HIV tests". This list is simply a list of NON-HIV factors that have been shown to cause a positive reaction AT LEAST ONCE on "HIV tests". There is no indication as to HOW OFTEN each of these factors may cause such a reaction on the tests. There may be only a handful of factors that are responsible for causing the majority of positive reactions. Some of the factors listed ARE indeed rarer than others.<BR><BR>With the use of "recombinant antigens" and "*SYNTHETIC* peptides", <a target=_top href="http://groups.msn.com/aidsmythexposed/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=40">LATTER-DAY "HIV TESTS"</a> may contain proteins that are indeed "more refined" structurally. However, as <a target=_top href="http://www.robertogiraldo.com">DR. GIRALDO</a> pointed out to me the other day on the phone, that does NOTHING to address the troublesome question of what is <a target=_top href="http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/epreplypd.htm">THE ACTUAL SOURCE</a> of all these proteins which have been ascribed to "HIV" and which are now frequently being ARTIFICIALLY synthesized for use in "HIV tests"? <BR><BR>I hope this was helpful. Holler back at me if you have any questions or comments.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Rod Knoll<BR><a target=_top href="http://www.aidsrc.org">AIDS REALITY CHECK</a>></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_Seattleite
September 30th, 2002, 12:25 AM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2><DIV>To display an image within your message, just click on the "Insert Picture" button next to the letter "A" for font colors when you re composing a message.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I m assuming you have the photograph on your hard drive and know where it is.&nbsp; After you click on "Insert Picture", click on the "My Computer" tab, and then click on "Browse" next to the empty field, locate the picture on your computer and double-click on it, then click on the "Add Photos" button next to "Cancel" at the upper right.&nbsp; The image will then&nbsp;be shown within your message after being uploaded from your computer.&nbsp; Your computer will not be used afterwards for displaying the photo, it s stored on MSN after you upload it.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>If you want the picture to be centered in the message, click on the "Center Justify" button to the right of the <U>U</U> button above the message composition window.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I hope this helps.</DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>

msn_Seattleite
September 30th, 2002, 12:29 AM
<TABLE ><TR><TD><FONT size=2><DIV>For centering the photo, I forgot to mention that you need to click on "Center Justify" before you insert the photograph.&nbsp; Type out what you want to say, hit the "Enter" key for a line break, click "Center Justify" and you ll see the cursor move to the center, then click on "Insert Picture" and follow the simple steps I explained in the previous post.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>If you want to type something under the photograph, just hit "Enter" after the image is displayed in your message and then type it out.&nbsp; If you want to compose another paragraph, hit the "Enter" key on your keyboard and then click on the "Left Justify" button above the message composition window.</DIV></FONT></TD></TR></TABLE>